Justin and Jason discuss some of the issues surrounding the UFO topic, Justin's experiment in outsourcing development work for Pluggio, Rob Walling's upcoming bootstrapping conference - MicroConf, alpha-testing Appignite and the challenge of generating an API and AJAX functionality, how Justin and Jason both got themselves into debt and how they're getting themselves out, the impressive quality of the low budget science fiction movie Monsters, an update on Jason's experiment on applying extrinsic and intrinsic motivation to his six-year old son, a better methodology for teaching mathematics, an update on Pluggio's revenue growth and why Jason is impressed with Elon Musk.