Pre-order Michele's book on talking to customers! https://deployempathy.com/order 

Michele Hansen  00:00

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Michele Hansen
So, the other day, I totaled up how much I have made from my book so far, and all the expenses. 

Colleen Schnettler  01:19

Okay. 

Michele Hansen  01:20

So, as of that point, $1363 in presales, which is just, like, the number of copies times 29. That's not my actual payouts. It's just, like, the gross revenue. 

Colleen Schnettler  01:34

Okay. 

Michele Hansen  01:34

And then, so the expenses. So, first one, for the formatting, I have to use the software called Vellum, which is $250. I had to buy ISBNs, like, the little, like, numbers on the back of the book that identify it. 

Colleen Schnettler  01:49

Yeah.

Michele Hansen  01:50

So, and I had to, you can either buy one, or like 10, and since I'm going to do an audio book, you need an ISBN for that, and like, a hardcover needs zone ISBN. And so anyway, that was $295. A barcode is $25. Proofreading $800, which is a lot of money, but I feel like that's the price of like, not being embarrassed that it's full of typos and you know, I feel like if I want to, like, have a book that, like, a manager could buy for their team, or like, people would recommend to their clients, like, it has to be professional.  And so having, like, professional proofreading is the cost of that.

Colleen Schnettler  02:24

Yeah.  I didn't know that was something. I didn't know that was a thing.

Michele Hansen  02:30

Yeah. Yeah, I spent, I think last week I mentioned how I was fighting with Grammarly a lot, and, 

Colleen Schnettler  02:35

Yeah. 

Michele Hansen  02:36

I just, I was like, I have spent like, two days fighting with Grammarly, just trying to get it to work, and like, and I was like, this is just, my time is more expensive than this.

Colleen Schnettler  02:47

Yeah.

Michele Hansen  02:47

So, I'm just gonna hire a proofreader. 

Colleen Schnettler  02:50

Good choice.

Michele Hansen  02:50

And then, of course, you know, don't include hundreds of hours of my time over the last couple of months. But, so, the total for expenses so far is $1370.

Colleen Schnettler  03:01

That's wonderful.

Michele Hansen  03:02

So, when you deduct $1363 minus $1370. 

Colleen Schnettler  03:11

Oh.

Michele Hansen  03:12

You get negative seven.

Colleen Schnettler  03:16

Yeah, I see. I misunderstood what you were saying. Got it. So you're in the hole seven bucks and hundreds of hours of your time.

Michele Hansen  03:25

Yes. Yeah. 

Colleen Schnettler  03:26

Alright. Well, good thing it;s a labor of love.

Michele Hansen  03:28

So, I looked at that number, though, and I just had this moment where I was like, holy, forking shirtballs, like, I need to market this thing. 

Colleen Schnettler  03:39

Yeah. 

Michele Hansen  03:40

Umm, and actually, so like, I sold another two since then. So now, I am actually at positive $51. 

Colleen Schnettler  03:51

Whoo. 

Michele Hansen  03:52

Yeah, whoo. Umm, and of course, you know, we're only like, only in presale, and like, a ton of people have today said they want the hardcover or they want the audio book. So they haven't, they haven't purchased it yet, or they just simply want the finished version. Umm, But yeah, that was kind of a wake up call for me that, like, I've been, you know, we talked about with Sean like, I, like marketing a info product feels very different for me than marketing a SaaS. 

Colleen Schnettler  04:19

Yes.

Michele Hansen  04:19

And also requires a lot more self-promotion, which I'm not comfortable with. Like, it makes me like, deeply uncomfortable to like, reach out to people and be like, hey, like, would you consider, like, you know, reviewing my book like, or, you know, can I be on your podcast and, like, talk, like, it makes me super uncomfortable. Umm so, so but I got to do it because like, negative $7, man, for like, four months worth of work is, you know, basically half of my time the last four months, certainly, last two months, has been on this book. And so I feel like I owe it to myself just for that, like, time to like, sell the gosh darn thing.

Colleen Schnettler  05:07

Definitely.

Michele Hansen  05:09

Yeah. So I like spent, you know, this week I was kind of working on, you know, like, I went through all of the newsletter issues and I, like, put in a link at the top to, like, buy the book because I've noticed that people are sharing the scripts around. Like, I can see the analytics that they're getting shared in people's Slack channels, or, you know, Trello, or Asana, which is a good sign that those maybe have some staying power. So, and just kind of thinking through a little bit more, a little bit more of the marketing and trying to arrange, you know, yeah, podcasts and stuff, but I gotta, I gotta market this thing.

Colleen Schnettler  05:52

Yeah, didn't Alex, who promoted his book on our podcast, didn't he do, like, 20 or 30 podcasts?

Michele Hansen  06:00

Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  06:01

And how many have you done?

Michele Hansen  06:04

Um, I, well, 

Colleen Schnettler  06:07

I already know the answer.

Michele Hansen  06:09

Well, I mean this one. I mean, I was on a couple recently where I talked about the newsletter. Like, I was on, I, yeah. Like, I was on the Get the Audience podcast, and I was on the Learn Neto podcast as well. But like, the book wasn't out yet. So those weren't really,

Colleen Schnettler  06:37

Right, you didn't have anything to sell at that time. 

Michele Hansen  06:39

Yeah, it was just the newsletter. Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  06:40

A good goal for you would be to try to book 15, you know, and get yourself as a guest on 15 to 20 podcasts to promote your book, because you can sell it now. Right? Even though it's not completely done.

Michele Hansen  06:52

Yeah. Yeah, I guess I guess. Yeah. I'm like scheduling one for the middle of July, like, so I'm currently, my goal is to publish it on July 2, but I like, I really hope that happens. But there may be like, you know, some people may need more time to, like, write reviews, and, like, making a cover and everything. So, it should be out by early July.

Colleen Schnettler  07:20

You're, when you say, I don't know. You mean the book? 

Michele Hansen  07:22

Yeah. 

Colleen Schnettler  07:22

I am little confused about what you're saying.

Michele Hansen  07:23

 Yeah. So like, upload it to Amazon, and people can buy a physical copy.

Colleen Schnettler  07:28

Yes.

Michele Hansen  07:29

So I don't think I'm quite there yet. Like, exactly like, and I think there's some things that I'm just saying aren't going to happen for, like, this first version, like, a friend of mine, who is a UX research expert was reading it, and there's a couple places she's like, this would be a really great table. This would be great as a graphic. And I'm like, yes, it would be but I have zero faculty for visual communication, and that is not going to happen right now. Like, that can like happen when my brain has the space to like, think that through, but it is, it is not happening right now. But yeah, I guess I guess I should say, I guess that, I don't even know where to start.

Colleen Schnettler  08:13

No no, Let's go like straight Nike style here. 

Michele Hansen  08:15

Nike style?

Colleen Schnettler  08:16

What is it, just do it? Just do it. That's my challenge for you. I'm not going to talk to you for a couple weeks because I'm about to embark on my epic road trip. So, my challenge for you is to reach out to, find and reach out to 25 podcast hosts that you think,

Michele Hansen  08:34

Good Lord.

Colleen Schnettler  08:34

And they’re not all going to say yes, which is like, hey, man. I know.

Michele Hansen  08:37

I'm sitting here being like, Colleen, and I really struggle with self promotion. And even, you know, one person was hard for me and you're like, go do it 25 more times. 

Colleen Schnettler  08:45

25 times. I love that idea.

Michele Hansen  08:46

Coach Colleen says 25 more reps. So not fair.

Colleen Schnettler  08:50

Yes. So, that's what my challenge for you is, is to reach out,

Michele Hansen  08:54

 How about five? 

Colleen Schnettler  08:57

Really? I'm not impressed with your five.

Michele Hansen  09:00

I feel like everybody, I feel like everybody like, needs this person standing on their shoulder that's like, I will write one landing page this month. And you're just there. They're like, really? 

Colleen Schnettler  09:11

Really? That's the best you can do?

Michele Hansen  09:13

That's, like, that's it, you know? Wait, like, why are you here? 

Colleen Schnettler  09:18

You should try and, I don't know, just ask, ask one of our prominent friends who is a book author, Alex comes to mind again, how many podcasts he went on? 

Michele Hansen  09:27

Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  09:28

And try to hit that number. I mean, it's game time girl. Like, you wrote the book. You did the hard work,nd now it's a whole new set of hard work that you have to do because you're right, like, this is a brilliant book. You don't want it to languish because, no one's ever heard of it.

Michele Hansen  09:43

I didn't say it was brilliant. You said it was brilliant.

Colleen Schnettler  09:46

Well, here you go. It's brilliant. it's needed. It's gonna be amazing. So, I think you need to like, get in gear.

Michele Hansen  09:54

Yeah, I, yeah. Okay. I guess, I have to go, well, if you are listening and you want to promote me, then help me.

Colleen Schnettler  10:06

Maybe what we can do is we can, I have an idea. Okay, plan. So, just put a tweet out and ask everyone for their favorite business podcast. I bet you'll get a list of at least 30. And then you can just,

Michele Hansen  10:17

Yeah, I guess, yeah, like, but like it has to be for SaaS, for example, because like, Planet Money isn't gonna have me on.

Colleen Schnettler  10:25

Right, right. I meant yeah, SaaS podcast. I mean, there's enough of them that do podcasts similar to ours. 

Michele Hansen  10:31

Make the internet do my research for me. 

Colleen Schnettler  10:34

Yes, there we go. Harness the power of the internet.

Michele Hansen  10:41

So if you see a tweet from the Software Social Account soon about your favorite business SaaS podcast, now you know why. 

Colleen Schnettler  10:50

The secret's out.

Michele Hansen  10:52

Yeah, the secret is out. Okay. Well, I will, I will try to book myself on some, some podcasts. I guess, I guess there's other ways I could promote it, too. Like, I could go on, like, Tiktok or,

Colleen Schnettler  11:12

No. 

Michele Hansen  11:14

No, we will not do that. For those listening at home, I think Colleen just spit out her coffee. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have some marketing to do.

Colleen Schnettler  11:34

Yes.

Michele Hansen  11:36

Yeah. I think I have like, I've literally sent I think one email, maybe two. No, yeah, one email that mentioned that the presale was live, which basically goes against every best practice, like, some like, someone sent me some advice the other day, and they're like, send at least three emails a day on your like, launch days. I was like, okay, I've sent like, one in the last two weeks, and I sent out my newsletter the other day, and I actually forgot to include a link to the presale. So, I need to, like,

Colleen Schnettler  12:06

You know what, suggestion. 

Michele Hansen  12:07

Yeah. 

Colleen Schnettler  12:07

This is really cool. So do you know the Wes Bos is?  He's, like, a famous JavaScript instructor. I bought like, all of his courses. But what he does is, he does, when he has a new product to launch, he does send a lot of emails, but he actually segments his emails. And to be fair, his list is probably like 30,000 people. But he segments his email, so you can unsubscribe just from the product launch emails, which I love, because I'm like, oh, I don't care about this product launch, or I already bought that, and then I can still continue to get all the normal newsletter emails. I mean, don't stress yourself out. 

Michele Hansen  12:10

Yeah. Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  12:14

But it's an idea. It's an idea.

Michele Hansen  12:20

Yeah, I'm only using review at this point for, so, I don't, like, I don't even have like, ConvertKit or anything. 

Colleen Schnettler  12:50

Okay, set up.

Michele Hansen  12:51

Set up, so I, I don't, I probably should do that, but I haven't really, 

Colleen Schnettler  13:00

Okay, so I think podcast.  I'm still in editing, like, get it out the door mode, because there's still other like, launch stuff. Like, I have to like register the ISBN and like, I need to go through the whole process with Amazon of like, making sure all that's like, setup. 

Michele Hansen  13:19

So, that feels like a July task.

Colleen Schnettler  13:24

July task. That's fine. It's halfway to July. It's almost July. So,

Michele Hansen  13:30

Yeah, so I, maybe I should, like, make a spreadsheet of all the different things and, like, have a goal for those.

Colleen Schnettler  13:39

I'm, I'm a big fan of measurable goals, right? Like, so, so I'm team, you know, write it down, keep a spreadsheet, keep track of it. Not that I've executed so well on my goals, right? It's easy for me to sit here and tell you what to do. It's way harder when it's you telling me what to do. So, you know, 

Michele Hansen  13:57

Well isn't there, there's some business axiom about like, it's not like, like, like, achieving the exact goal is not important. It's the fact that you create one and then work towards it that matters. Like, there's somebody who has said something to that effect much more articulately than just said, but you know, it's like just you set the goal and then you go off on a journey to get there and you may end up somewhere else, but like, you have, you're at least doing something.

Colleen Schnettler  14:23

Right? You're making forward progress.

Michele Hansen  14:25

Yeah, and I should probably have a revenue goal, too. Like, 

Colleen Schnettler  14:29

So, okay.

Michele Hansen  14:29

Even though I don't want one, I should, I guess.

Colleen Schnettler  14:32

Okay, I'm gonna get off topic, and I don't want to get too far off topic. But, so I'm a really big fan of, like, famous sports coaches, like, 

Michele Hansen  14:42

Okay.

Colleen Schnettler  14:43

Like, this is, like, a thing. Like, I love reading biographies of like John Wooden and all these other really successful sports coaches. And one of my favorite takeaways from all of this information that I've osmosed is you cannot control the outcome, right? You can only control your effort and your attitude, which is why revenue goals are not very actionable. Because a revenue goal, like, you actually can't control that. What you can control is your attitude, right? How you approach the problem, and your effort, and how hard you work, and by aligning all of these steps in terms of effort and attitude, the revenue will come. But to set a goal, like, like, in the, you know, the basketball metaphors, like when the NCAA championships, you can't actually control that. You can just control how prepared you are, and your mindset when you attack the problem.

Michele Hansen  15:40

Oh, that makes sense.

Colleen Schnettler  15:43

I know that's, like, totally off topic, but I just read about it. And I'm like,

Michele Hansen  15:48

Yeah, so it's, so to what you were saying, like your goal of 25 podcast episodes. And, and rather than having a goal of say, you know, I don't know, like, $5,000, for example. Instead having it be like, be on 25 podcasts over the next six months to a year, about it, not including this one, because if we include all the episodes of this show then I'm like, totally hitting that, but I assume we're not. Um, and, you know, so like, being on a specific number of podcasts, or something else. I don't know, guest talks or something. Um, yeah, like picking like, specific actions that I can do that's like your equivalent. Like, it's like, write a landing page, right? Like, like, all these, like, things that are actions that I know are accretive towards, 

Colleen Schnettler  16:51

Right. That's the idea.

Michele Hansen  16:52

Good outcomes, but like, I fundamentally don't have that much control over how much I actually sell. Like, I can keep my ears out for things that might sell like, you know, for example, I'm gonna sell templates, too, for $19 that are like, Notion templates of all the scripts and it occurred to me earlier, like the, the How to Talk So People Will Talk section like, people seem to really love that. And I was like, that could maybe be its own, like, mini book for like, $10. It's like, just like, so you want, like, you know, you, you want to get information out of people, and you want them to think you're like, trustworthy and you want to, you know, learn how to, like listen actively, then, a mini book or something, like there's other stuff I could do.

Colleen Schnettler  17:36

Right, I guess all of my points, all of that that you just described, that's effort, right? Those are things you do. You ultimately can't control your revenue, but it'll get there if you put the effort in. That's the idea.

Michele Hansen  17:46

But like, I if I set the goal of like, be the, I don't know, New York Times number one bestseller or whatever, like, I have zero control over that. It's also not realistic. And it's not it, in some ways it's like, de-motivating there have a goal that is not clearly achievable. 

Colleen Schnettler  18:07

Exactly.

Michele Hansen  18:07

But being on 25 podcast is not like, like, that's like, those are very nebulous goals, because it's unclear what will lead to that. 

Colleen Schnettler  18:17

Yeah. Exactly.

Michele Hansen  18:17

But being on 20 Live podcast in six months is concrete. And I ostensibly have control over that.

Colleen Schnettler  18:26

Yes. Nice.

Michele Hansen  18:28

Wow. So, it sounds like you are doing like a lot of like, business reading lately.

Colleen Schnettler  18:38

Yeah, um, not a ton. So I do have a couple audio books queued up for my drive that I'm excited about, business ebooks, Obviously Awesome is one that I've been wanting to listen to and I have purchased but I have not yet. This one I just really liked. This one was about, like I said, some of the famous coaches. First of all, I'm a sucker for sports movies, but, but I really liked that idea that ultimately you, you can't control, like, if you're going to win, but you can control all of the aspects of your journey, like how much time you put in, how much effort you put in, like, what your mindset is, you could, those are all things that you know, you can control. And as you know, for like, it feels like for a couple months now I've been struggling to move the product forward. Like, the product is doing well. I hit $1300 MRR. 

Michele Hansen  19:28

Nice.

Colleen Schnettler  19:28

Which is, yeah, I mean, it's great. 

Michele Hansen  19:30

Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  19:30

I'm really happy with it. But it, I feel a little bit stuck. I feel, and I don't know if it's, I feel stuck because I haven't had the time, or if I feel stuck because I'm actually stuck. Like, I can't figure out if I feel stuck because if I, if I, let's say I gave myself a week and I just worked every day on it if I would get myself out of that kind of rut, or if there's really no rut to get out of and this is just the nature of the product. That it's just a slow burn, which is fine. I mean, it's going well, like I'm not complaining, I know some people can't, you know, haven't hit this milestone, especially not as quickly as I did. But, um, so there's that. So, I think what I want to do is I want to make a bigger push on content. Because I really haven't, I really don't have any content out there. So that's something I'm going to try and spend some time on, and like, there's just some things about the product that I want to keep iterating on, and I want to make better.

Michele Hansen  20:36

I mean, we were just talking about goals and the, sort of how difficult it is to have a monetary goal because you don't have control over it. And it's, it's awesome, first of all that, I mean, to have $1300 MRR means that, I mean, a month or two ago, we're talking about how you're hitting 1000. That means that like, that's, the thing, the thing about revenue for a subscription business is that revenue happens every month, like, this revenue that I have from the book, that happened once, and that's not going to happen again. But yours, people are paying you. So it's not just that you have made $1300 like, you, that is compounding and adding on top of each other. But I am sort of curious, like, there has to be some number or range in your head where you're like, I can stop consulting now. Or I can, you know, somebody offers me a full time job and I can just like, turn it down without even thinking about. Like, there has to be some number for you.

Colleen Schnettler  21:38

Absolutely. And I think like, and, and, absolutely. And I mean, I'm in this for the money. Like, just to be clear, that makes some people really uncomfortable. I don't know if they're not used to women saying that or what, but like, when I tell people that they get a little uncomfortable.

Michele Hansen  21:53

It’s like, your job, like,

Colleen Schnettler  21:55

Yeah, like, I want to make more money. 

Michele Hansen  21:56

Like, of course everybody is in their job for the money. Like, yes, I'm doing this book as like, a passion project and like, which leads me to make all sorts of decisions that are confusing to people who prioritize money, like, but like you, understandably, are prioritizing money, because this is your job. And if this doesn't work out, then you know,

Colleen Schnettler  22:17

I gotta go get a real one.

Michele Hansen  22:18

I mean tons more consulting, or like, getting, getting a paycheck job is what you have to do. Like, this is not,

Colleen Schnettler  22:25

Yeah, so. 

Michele Hansen  22:27

Yeah. 

Colleen Schnettler  22:28

I mean, the thing I love about owning your own business is the possibilities are infinite, right? Like, I mean, I, from a personal perspective, you know, if I could get to 10k, that would be like, Oh, my gosh, I cannot, that would be, I'd be over the moon, right? 

Michele Hansen  22:45

So that's the number.

Colleen Schnettler  22:47

The number would be 10k. But, you know, why can't I have a couple million dollars a year in revenue? Like, I want a business.

Michele Hansen  22:53

 Why can't you have a million dollars? 

Colleen Schnettler  22:56

I mean, I want a business. Like, if I hit 10k and stay there forever, like, I probably would be a little frustrated. Like, to me, the whole point of having your own business is the possibilities are, in, you know, infinite. And like, one of the things I've been able to do with my modest income, is I've been able to hire two people to help write content for me. And yeah, hired someone else. 

Michele Hansen  23:23

Oh, you're, wait. 

Colleen Schnettler  23:25

And, yeah, man, I'm crazy over here. I'm just, dollar bills. 

Michele Hansen  23:28

Dude, and I'm like, 7 years into this and I like, just hired, like, a part time VA, like, three months ago.

Colleen Schnettler  23:34

Yeah, yeah. I feel like you're doing it wrong. But that's a different issue.

Michele Hansen  23:37

Probably. I'm doing it my way, okay. 

Colleen Schnettler  23:40

That's right. So, and the thing I love about that is, I, with, with the people that I'm paying, I've been able to, you know, people who are kind of writing anyway, now I can pay them to write, it seems like such a win-win. Like, I feel like I'm, it's good for them and it's good for me. And it's something I really love. So like, ultimately, I would love to build this into, like, you know, a really successful business and hire a person and, and, and be able to have created this environment where I can work with who I want and buy my beach house and all that. I mean, I'm big on the beach house if I haven't mentioned that a few times already.

Michele Hansen  24:25

So the first, like, the first big goal, which I think it'll be fun to reevaluate this a year from now, is like 10k basically.

Colleen Schnettler  24:36

Yeah. I mean,

Michele Hansen  24:36

To get you to 10k revenue and then to like, the big, big goal is buy Colleen a beach house.

Colleen Schnettler  24:43

Buy Colleen a beach house. Yeah. But to me 10k, and I don't know if I have, and I'm still, I feel like I'm in that messy middle phase. Like, I hit 1k, which makes it feel like it's a real thing. Like it's, it's legit, but I don't know if I'm in, I feel like there's a, going from zero to 1k is different than going from 1k to 10k. Right? It's a factor of 10 more. Like it's a big, you feel like going from zero to 1k is one milestone and one to 10 is your next milestone. But one to 10 is way more than zero to one, right? So, I honestly don't know if I'm positioned correctly with this product to get there.

Michele Hansen  25:26

Which is why you’re reading Obviously Awesome.

Colleen Schnettler  25:28

Which is why I'm reading Obviously, Obviously Awesome. I just, I just don't know, if I'm in the right space, there's so much opportunity. I was talking to a founder recently and he talked about how he pivoted his company and moved into a totally different space, and they started growing, like they were kind of stagnant for a while, and then they kind of made this pivot, moved into a new space and their growth exploded. So, I definitely think there's a spot for me, I just don't know what it is, and I just don't know, it feels like a lot. Like the other thing that, that I wanted to just kind of bring up is when people talk about how to grow in your business. They talk about, like, building the product, as if it's this static thing that takes you like two weeks, and like writing good software is hard. And, it's a constantly evolving process. So it's something that constantly needs my you know, my attention, and that's not bad. I just feel like, you know, it's hard to balance, as most people who listen to this who are working and building a product know, it's just hard to balance all of those competing desires. So I just don't know if I have a, I guess the truth is, I don't know if I have a product that's going to get me to 10k. Like, I don't know, I don't know where it is right now. It's that product.

Michele Hansen  26:52

I mean, thinking back to where we were like I don't, I don't have our numbers in front of me, so I don't remember them exactly. But like, the thing that really made our revenue jump was not adding any one particular feature or one particular marketing thing. It was a pricing change, because we like, so we started out, I think we were like $31 our first month. And then I don't know, like, maybe maybe $100 the next month, and then like $400 the next month, and then in May of 2014, we had someone who needed, like, a crazy volume of usage every single day. And the only way we could make that work was basically to give them their own server. And we looked around and see what, you know, big companies were charging for these sort of really high volume, like, plans and we're, and I think we we figured out like, the cheapest one was like 10,000 a year, for, that was still like rate limited, I think to 100,000 a day, but we're like, okay, we can do like basically Unlimited, up to like 5 million a day for you for $750 a month, which worked out to 9000 a year. And adding that plan, which was like, slightly different feature-wise, but like it wasn't it wasn't like adding a feature to the API, but it was like a pricing feature, and a new plan, adding that one plan and then, like, we didn't think anyone else would ever take it, and then people started taking it. Like, that is what caused our revenue to really grow. And so I wonder if there's some space for like, you know, pricing evolution here. And like maybe there's some other way of packaging your products with the existing features in a way that's at a higher price point. But I don't like, I don't know why that is.

Colleen Schnettler  28:44

So I do.

Michele Hansen  28:44

 It's your business, like, so. 

Colleen Schnettler  28:46

Yeah.

Michele Hansen  28:46

But like, I think it's worth thinking about, like, the pricing aspects of, of this.

Colleen Schnettler  28:50

Yeah, well, and one of the things I do is my app has a lot more power that I'm exposing at the moment. So, I think the answer for example, like, I think I limit your file size to 50MBs, there's no reason I have to do that, like I don't, you know, there's there's a couple things someone reached out to me and told me that his company has a setup now where their customers upload files, like up to a gig(GB) through Upload Care, and then they, but they move them off the Upload Care servers, because it's so expensive, or it's a whole thing. I'm talking to him, I'm gonna, you know, have I have an interview scheduled with him to better understand

Michele Hansen  29:26

Whoo.

Colleen Schnettler  29:26

I know.

Michele Hansen  29:27

Music to my ears. 

Colleen Schnettler  29:30

But I, you know, so my point is, there's the two things that I'm not doing, I think I've might have mentioned this last week, is multiple file uploads, which I can do. I'm doing it for one client, special, and large files. So it might just be that I'm not quite positioned properly yet. 

Michele Hansen  29:46

Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  29:46

In terms of I've really kept, I've kept a lot of that functionality close to the chest for no particular reason, just because I didn't want to like, release all the features at once and overwhelm everyone like, oh my goodness, but since I can't do those things, it seems like re, kind of revisiting, revisiting some of those options would probably be a good move for me. 

Michele Hansen  30:09

Yeah, I think it's really smart that you're, like you're doing a big road trip. So you're, and you're going to be listening to this book in the car, right?

Colleen Schnettler  30:19

Yes, ma'am.

Michele Hansen  30:20

Like, I find that we do our best like, business thinking on road trips, like, I, maybe it's because, you know, you like, you, you can't be doing anything else, like, you are literally stuck there.

Colleen Schnettler  30:34

Right. You’re stuck.

Michele Hansen  30:34

And like, and I can't be looking at my phone in the car, otherwise, I'm going to get carsick. And, of course, it's the two of us and like, like, our go to for road trips is like, how I built this. So we end up like, really like, coming up with stuff on on, like, you know, I have, like, emailed myself of, like, conversations we've had on road trips. And so of course, it'll only be you. But, you know, those times when, like, the kids are sleeping in the back or whatever, and you can't have the audio book on and thinking all these things through, like, I think it'll be really good thinking time for yourself. And but remember to like, take notes every day on what it is that you think about.

Colleen Schnettler  31:17

Oh. That's a good point. I should bring a notebook. That's a really good point.

Michele Hansen  31:20

Like, a notebook or even just like, record a voice memo for yourself or whatever, if that's easier, just like, something so you don't, like, because there are times when when we've had like, an amazing conversation on a road trip, and then I didn't write it down. And then like, you know, a week later, we're back and we're like, oh, my God, like, what was that like, an amazing thing. And like I had this whole, like, like pre COVID, we were on a road trip. And I had this whole idea of like, our content strategy built around, like really unique address data. Like, for example, in South Carolina, there's three, there's like four towns called Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland, all right next to each other, like, I was gonna, like, write about all of these, like, odd location, address things, and I came up with this great name for it on the road trip, and then I like, I still cannot remember what that name was, so take notes.

Colleen Schnettler  32:09

Yeah, I totally, I totally hear you. I know exactly what you're saying. I think that's a great idea. I think I have a lot of thinking to do. You know, I kind of feel like it was really exciting in the beginning when I was trying to launch the product. And then it's really exciting. And then everything is very, very exciting. And then you hit your first milestone, and then it's kind of like, oh, but now there's another milestone, okay, so I never really win. 

Michele Hansen  32:32

Right. The goalpost just moves.

Colleen Schnettler  32:34

The goalpost continuously moves. So it's interesting to me, I mean, I have a lot to think about is like, is this a product that can get me to 10k? How do I, and how do I get there? Right? Like, what is what do I need to do to get there? As I just said, when I was giving you my little pep talk, like it's putting in the work, I mean, you know, it's not going to sell itself. So yeah, I'm ready to really, really give it some time to think about it on my epic journey.

Michele Hansen  33:01

Alright, well, on, on that note, I guess we should just sort of make a quick programming note that Colleen will be away for the next two weeks. And so we will, we will be leading on that social side of Software Social and have some guests coming up that I'm super excited about. And then I will be away the following week, so Colleen is gonna have a guest on, and then we will both be like, basically a month from now.

Colleen Schnettler  33:34

Oh my gosh. I won’t talk to you for a month.

Michele Hansen  33:35

Wow. That feels so weird. 

Colleen Schnettler  33:37

Oh, gracious. That's sad. 

Michele Hansen  33:45

I mean, you'll text me roadtrip updates.

Colleen Schnettler  33:45

Obviously.

Michele Hansen  33:46

Yeah. 

Colleen Schnettler  33:46

Obviously, I’m so excited to see, like, cactuses, by the way. 

Michele Hansen  33:52

Yeah?

Colleen Schnettler  33:52

In Arizona. Yeah. I'm so excited to see the great American West.

Michele Hansen  33:55

I've heard Arizona is, like, gorgeous.

Colleen Schnettler  33:57

Yeah, I'm super pumped to see a big cactus. Anyway.

Michele Hansen  34:00

Oh, I've been there. I was okay, whatever. We're gonna stop here for today.

Colleen Schnettler  34:07

Wrap it up.

Michele Hansen  34:11

I'll talk to you next week.