Link to the marketing to developers article Colleen mentioned

Michele Hansen  0:01 
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Colleen Schnettler  0:49  
So Michele, are you at your computer right now?

Michele Hansen  0:51  
I've always at my computer.

Colleen Schnettler  0:55  
Okay, I would like you to go to Google. And I would like you to Google file uploading on Heroku.

Michele Hansen  1:01  
Okay, I'm typing right now. 

Colleen Schnettler 
Okay. 

What came up first thing?

Colleen Schnettler  1:10  
First Google result.

Michele Hansen  1:14  
Wait, is this because I've gone to it before though? Like,

Colleen Schnettler  1:17  
that's what I thought I was like, is Google biasing my response by incognito. Ok, do it again.

Michele Hansen  1:25  
Does it file upload on her while

Colleen Schnettler  1:27  
uploading on Heroku?

Unknown Speaker  1:28  
Still number one.

Unknown Speaker  1:32  
Amazing. That's

Michele Hansen  1:33  
amazing. Like,

Colleen Schnettler  1:36  
I just want to capitalize on being the number one Google response. I don't really know. Yeah. But I was super excited to see that. Yeah, that is like my exciting news for the week.

Michele Hansen  1:47  
That is really exciting.

Colleen Schnettler  1:50  
Yeah. I and you know what the best part about this is, I didn't even know. And I was having a customer interview. And I asked him how he found out about we'll talk about

Michele Hansen  2:02  
this, you're burying the lede here? Well, I don't know. It's all exciting. There's like multiple news stories here.

Colleen Schnettler  2:12  
Yes, it's all exciting. So this is exciting. I am the number one. Number one hit on Google for file uploading on Heroku. Your number one brilliant,

Michele Hansen  2:21  
your number. I

Colleen Schnettler  2:22  
know, that's awesome. Like, I just I don't want to breathe on it in case

Michele Hansen  2:27  
Google changes their mind. Okay, this means you do shouldn't work on your documentation and just don't touch it.

Unknown Speaker  2:33  
Don't touch anything.

Colleen Schnettler  2:36  
Don't breathe on the website. So I think that was really exciting to see. And I definitely want to make that landing page that you dropped to better to kind of pull in the people who are reaching me now from Google. So that's something something I'm working on. But what I alluded to is I found that out because I had a customer interview. So last week, I emailed I think I told you, I would do it ages ago. And I finally did it. Thanks to you know, the positive encouragement I received from you and friends on the internet. Thank you friends on the internet. I emailed 14 people. And as I told you with Heroku, I can get their application name. So in the subject of the email, I said, simplify, upload a end, and I put their application name. personalize it. That's smart. Yeah, I figured I'd get a better response rate, like people would actually open it instead of just saying like, simple file upload. Yeah. So of those 14 emails, I got three responses. That's great one. Yeah, I thought free for 14 isn't bad. One guy said he didn't have time to talk. But it was the best file uploader on Heroku. And I should do more marketing. Nice.

Michele Hansen  3:48  
I always love it when customers tell tell us to do more marketing. Like it's such a an unexpected kind of feedback. Because it's like, wait, you want me to be louder?

Colleen Schnettler  4:05  
So I responded to him and asked him if I could use that as a testimonial. And he said I could. So I haven't put those I haven't put the testimonial on the website yet. But that is something I want to get to do.

Michele Hansen  4:15  
That's awesome. testimonials are so good for growth, like when you like if you've got people clicking on it from Google. And then they come to and it's like not only it seems like it's what they need, but there's some other person saying this is exactly what I needed. That's so helpful for getting new signups. They've been really good for us.

Colleen Schnettler  4:36  
Yeah, I think it'll be good. So So I will add that I just haven't added that yet. So I'm going to add that to my site. And two people said they would get on the phone with me. So you'll know that this is the first time I've actually done this right.

Michele Hansen  4:51  
Yeah, that's that's so good.

Colleen Schnettler  4:54  
Yes, so it is good, but so the first person I see spoke with he was actually in Japan. So I had to do it like in the evening here, and it was morning in Japan and he was so nice, but the call lasted 10 minutes, that's okay. I feel like I totally like, I don't want to say I bungled it like it was really great. But at the same time, like I thought about you talking about how I should schedule an hour, and it was like 10 minutes, and I just ran out of things to say. So,

Michele Hansen  5:28  
like, I've had interviews that were, you know, 10 minutes, like you said, and then ones that were like, an hour and a half, I usually came for about half an hour. Okay, but like, 10 minutes is fine. Like, if you got a really good nugget of information, or you found something out about, like, how they found you why they were looking for something different, what they were using before, which may not have been another service, but like, it could have been, you know, a combination of manual things or patching things together, whatever. Like, if you got that information, and you feel like you got something out of that conversation. That can happen in 10 minutes. Like, that's okay. Okay.

Colleen Schnettler  6:12  
Because I got off the phone and my whole family. So it was dinnertime, here. So I told the kids like I have this call, I'm gonna be there for an hour. And I'm back like 10 minutes later, and they're like, Why are you back? Well, I guess I'm done. But it was like a great, it was a great interview, the person I spoke with was really kind. And I got a lot of information. As I said, that's how I found out like, he found me, because he googled file uploading on Heroku. And that's the first thing that came up. So that was exciting. Yeah. And it was also great, because he's using flask with Python. And I don't have any documentation surrounding like Pike, Python, specifically, like I have generic documentation. But it was nice to see that like, he didn't have any trouble. Theoretically, it should have worked. But I don't actually know anyone who's tried it. So I was it was good to see he didn't have any trouble integrating the add on in his application, because he's actively using it. And so that was like, really useful information.

Michele Hansen  7:11  
Yeah. So I have to ask, Did I ever tell you about my favorite most critical interview question? No, it would have been a really good thing for me to tell you last week. Okay, so. So you have your questions that you've prepared in advance, right? Like, I always suggest having a script, you don't necessarily have to stay to the script, but it's it just helps like, organize your thoughts. And I also, I used to print them out with, you know, maybe 10. Returns worth of space so that I could scribble down notes as I was going through it. But so in addition to those things, that sounds like you got like, how did you find out about it? Why were you looking for something? You know, what were you using before? And how do you find it? The question I always end with is something to the effect of, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I've learned so much from you. Is there anything else you want me to know? And then you wait. And you just let them fill that silence. And I tend to find that will be where some of the best information will come out of the interview because you've gotten them primed to thinking about this and their their their brain is on the topic, and then you basically just let them kind of freeform with it.

Colleen Schnettler  8:37  
Okay, okay, that's a great idea. I have another one coming up this week. So I will get to continue to practice nice.

Michele Hansen  8:44  
And by the way, so getting two people on the phone out of 14 like that, that's pretty good. Like, I think that's about what you should expect, I think my own feedback requests, which are actually our new customer ones go out once a month, and mine just went out the other day. So it's been really fun. This week. hearing back from people, I think my the best I've been able to get my response rate is like 8%. And then the percentage of people who actually have a phone call with is like, much lower.

Colleen Schnettler  9:19  
Okay, wait, what emails are you taught you send out monthly? Will you talk with me emails?

Michele Hansen  9:24  
Yes. So for so the way our pay as you go plan works is that we roll up all of their usage and charge it on the first of the following month, which saves us money and credit card processing fees. And we also give them a volume discount. So it's kind of a win win for everyone. Because like if you know somebody is using the API and for example, they're building up 10 cents worth of usage every day. Like it doesn't make sense to charge them every day. And so I have emails that trigger to people who have are being charged for the first time to understand why They started using us or why they've recently started paying us.

Colleen Schnettler  10:05  
Interesting. So do you also email them at the beginning of that cycle? Like as soon as they sign up, you email them, I assume.

Michele Hansen  10:11  
So they get a like, generic, like, here's how you, you know, hello, here's how you use the service, like, let us know if you have any questions when they sign up be like, because we have a free tier, it's really hard to distinguish between who is going to become a paying customer and who's just trying it out, or who is Oh, I see. And I just, I would love to talk to every single person. And we used to talk to every single person. But that's just not feasible at this point. So now I only talk to people who have paid us something. But it's for the first time I have other specific projects. I'll do if I have like a specific question I'm curious about. But that's my sort of ongoing work, work work that I do on that. And I had like, I have a phone call next week. But I didn't have any this week.

Colleen Schnettler  11:03  
So what is that? Usually? Like? How many people does that usually end up being that you're talking to a month?

Michele Hansen  11:10  
I don't know. What did I end up talking to you? So I don't actually know how many I end up sending to, I want to say, this week, it was like, there was like 15 or 20 people who I ended up replying to and I will say because of like lockdown and time zones, I have steered the email in the direction of getting people to email me back. Yes, I've also gotten better at asking the question so that I can get more from the email.

Colleen Schnettler  11:43  
Right. Okay. Yeah,

Michele Hansen  11:44  
that's I mean, that's taken a couple years worth of a b testing on that. Yeah. I mean, at the beginning, it was like, Hey, we noticed you signed up, like, tell us why you're using it. So and then I have a call with someone next week, because what they mentioned, relates to a broader question I have been trying to figure out, and so we're gonna have a call at some point next week. But yeah, I mean, I'll get, you know, emails back that are like five, six paragraphs, or sometimes it's like two sentences. One I responded to this morning, as if I was a real person, which was so awesome. If you're listening, you know who you are. And that made me laugh. But yeah, I mean, I always love that, that people are like, Wait, is the founder really emailing me? Or is this just like some automated email that's going out? Yes, I remember when I first bought a mattress from one of those mattress startups, I get in the early days of mattress startups. We bought from one of the smaller ones. And I got an email that's like, Hey, I'm the founder of the company. I'd love to hear like, why you why you bought it. And you know how you found us and whatever. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is so exciting. I was like, I love being on the other side of these, because I feel like I take so much from the world and getting other people's thoughts that I that I love to participate on the other side. And so like, I spent all this really long email, and I got a reply, but it's from a customer service person. And they were very, very nice. But I was kind of like, Oh, it's not really very nice. But it was like that was kind of a trick. And so I definitely get emails back to like, are you really the founder of the company? And like to be like, yes, yes, I am a real person who is actually not tricking you. And people really appreciate that. But we were talking about you and your customer.

Colleen Schnettler  13:34  
So right, so I have another one next week. So I mean, the thing that I think we've talked about before that I really struggle with is the the overexcited ik responding. And, you know, there's the guy on the phone with me, like was very complimentary about what I had built. And, you know, said it really helped him. Because Heroku has this problem where you can't store your images, like with your app, because they have an ephemeral file system. So everyone on Heroku, who wants user uploaded files needs to store them somewhere else. And so it was great. Like, it was a really good chat and, but I do think like, it's hard for me not to be, that's really my struggle, cuz I'm gonna be like, yes, that's why I built it, or, you know, I get really excited. So, so that's something I'm going to work on. I have another one on Wednesday. And that's something I'm gonna work on for my next talk. My next customer interview on Wednesday, but I really think at this stage I I'm in trying to get as many of these as I can, is a good move.

Michele Hansen  14:36  
Yeah, absolutely. And like it also makes sense that when someone says, This is so useful, and really helped me and thank you for making it that you would feel oh my gosh, like like that feels so good for you because you worked on this for so long without any feedback. And you worked on other things for so long without them really going anywhere like this, and so it makes sense why, like that would catch you. And you want to sort of revel in that feeling rather than being able to like file away the compliment to store it for later. And then I'm not trying to make storage ponds here that just happened accidentally. But like filing that away for later and then saying, oh, like, Can you tell me why it was helpful? Like, like, we're specifically like, it makes sense that you wouldn't be able to take it to that sort of, like completely unemotional level. And instead you're like, Yes, I help someone. This is a minute. Like, that makes sense.

Colleen Schnettler  15:41  
Yeah. Yeah. So I think we talked last week, I talked about dedicating one day a week to marketing. But that's still really hard for me. So I'm doing one hour a day I'm committing. Because we talked a little bit last week too, about just like kind of sitting in that uncomfortableness of like, what am I doing, starting something new and trying to learn a new skill? So I am going to do one hour a day. And I'm going to tweet about it to help me stay accountable. Nice. A Yeah, that's like how I learned to code. I did 100 days of code a couple years ago, when I was trying to learn web development. And it was great, because you know, no one cares what I tweet about. I'm not Twitter famous. And and it was a good thing for me to be able to go back and see like what I had done and keep myself accountable. So I'm trying really hard to do that. So and as I also said, work, like actual paid work is going to get really busy. So I just don't have time to obsess over this. So I'm trying not to obsess over it.

Michele Hansen  16:38  
So what did you work on in your marketing Power Hour, this week.

Colleen Schnettler  16:43  
So the marketing Power Hour this week, I did the thing where I emailed everyone that took like an hour to get 14 individual emails, I also worked on the landing page. I'm really, as we talked about, I think before landing pages are hard for me, because it's just not a skill set I have. And so I'm really like I pulled out a whole bunch of text, I really tried to simplify. And kind of market a little bit more towards developers, I found this great article, my friend shared with me about marketing to developers and what they want to know. And so like, there's things I haven't added, but like I kind of came up with a plan. Like I want to add like, as a developer, when you're looking for a piece of software, you want to know how I was talking about I but like, you want to know how it works. You want to know if it's gonna work with your stack. You want to know that other people have used it. So to me that looks like I now have a heading on my Heroku elements page. It says what does it do? Like? That's what it says involved? What does it do? Because that's the kind of thing like how does it work? Right? Like, what do I have to do? I tried to make it simpler to explain, like, What do I have to do as a developer to integrate it? Like what do I have to do? So once I had this like really flowery language, it was like simple file, upload uploads all your files to the cloud and returns the CDN URL and has, you know, multiple cloud storage providers for redundancy. And it was like three sentences long. And I got rid of that. And now it just says how to apply how to how to use it in five easy steps.

Michele Hansen  18:10  
Nice. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull up your website right now. So I just want to say that, you know, the more you do these interviews, that'll help with your copy a lot, because you'll be phrasing it in the terms that people are using that people are typing in when they're looking for something. I mean, it sounds like file upload on Heroku is, I mean, you've nailed that. And yeah, okay, so I see this how it works button here. Does that meet? Take me to the documentation? Oh, interesting. It takes me to a video.

Colleen Schnettler  18:41  
Yeah, so I was thinking of take taking that video maybe and putting it See I just have a splash image like a, you know, one of those free images on the right here. So I was thinking, making, maybe making where it says see how it works. And it opens a video and a modal. Like I was thinking of maybe putting the video on the right. So you could just play it in the frame there.

Michele Hansen  18:59  
Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. I think that makes sense. And then like, I might even add the like you said, the first thing you want to know is, how does it work? And will it work with what I'm doing? So I might even put a documentation button right there as a call to action?

Colleen Schnettler  19:19  
Well, I have one in a navbar.

Michele Hansen  19:21  
Yeah, but now is different than a immediate call to action. Like it's there. But like, if you're saying that your thought process when you find out about something is what is it? Like, you know, does it do what I wanted to do, which is you're gonna have that video sitting right there. And then yeah, does it work with what I'm working with? Like, how does it work? I think it might make sense to have the documentation.

Colleen Schnettler  19:44  
Yeah, I don't think the documentation really answers that question in a succinct way, which might be a different problem. Because if you were to go if I did have a documentation link there, it would jump you to documentation. Well, maybe I should. I was thinking more of like adding a You know, like another section under the header that just like said, like answered those questions that you just said like, will it work with my stack? How does it work? Yeah, I was thinking putting that here on the homepage, or the landing page, whatever

Michele Hansen  20:12  
you call them. So I, you said earlier that one of the people who got back to you said that you should do more marketing? And I'm curious, like, Did you follow up with them? And say, like, Can you be more specific? Like, what what kinds of things would you like to see us doing? Oh,

Colleen Schnettler  20:28  
I did not. That's a good that might

Michele Hansen  20:30  
be helpful, because like, I've had people say that and it turned out like they were they were looking for some documentation, or they were looking for like, how to guides about things or, like they wanted to send it to a, like a co worker, for example, who was less familiar with this? And they needed something that would have explained a specific thing to them. Like, it might be just worth digging in there a little bit.

Colleen Schnettler  20:54  
Okay, because I have a lot of ideas, right of what I should do. Like, I want to make a react. Well, I told you, I hired someone to make me a react thing, but it needs a little polish. So I'd like to get that out there. But I will reach out to the person who said that to see to see if there was something specific he was looking for that he couldn't find. But yeah, I think on this main page, I just want to add like I was thinking of adding a block, right before it says seamless file uploading that just says like, like, will it work with my stack or something like that? And then having icons of all the different languages that works with Oh, yeah. Right. Because visually appealing, someone suggested that to me, but it seems like a good idea. So I was thinking of adding that. And then the testimonials. Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm thinking.

Michele Hansen  21:43  
So it also I noticed that in from Google, when you click on it, it doesn't go to that like splash page that you had on Heroku, it goes to something that looks a little bit more like documentation.

Colleen Schnettler  21:56  
Yes, so the Google results take you, I think, to the Heroku documentation page, which is different from my apps documentation page. Because the Heroku documentation are specific to Heroku. And that's like, part of the requirements when you submit an app to Heroku is to have that page. So that's why that's why it takes you there on that that page. I mean, I have three pages I'm talking about here. Okay, I have the Heroku documentation page, which is where Google drops you. I have the Heroku elements page, which is like my landing page for Heroku. And then I have my regular landing page. So there's like three places that I need to be mindful of how I'm communicating my message. Yeah.

Michele Hansen  22:39  
And you as I'm on the on the main Heroku, add on page, I guess. I am reminded of how last week you said you raise the prices. And I'm curious if that had any impact on your signups this week.

Colleen Schnettler  22:53  
So it didn't, it became approved yesterday, because there was some like, yeah, work. Yeah. So now this is like an interesting thing to talk about. Because I did raise the prices based on some feedback from you and other people. And so it was only yesterday. So I have had one person sign up at the higher price point. Nice. So that's cool. Yeah, yes. So that's exciting. And I still like I hate that I can't do a free trial. But Heroku isn't set up to do a free trial. So you can do one, but you have to manage all of the like signup logic on your application to do that. And I just don't have the time right now, like I said, with work, and all this other stuff. Like I don't have the time right now to set that up. I think if you're getting people signing up without a free trial, even at a higher price point,

Michele Hansen  23:47  
run with that, like, see how far that can take you maybe you don't need a free trial, because it sounds like there is a pretty big gap in the market for file. top result, there are literally a gap here.

Colleen Schnettler  24:03  
Already the top result, and I've had this for like six months, maybe four months. Yeah, so that's what I'm going to do. Because I just, I have a lot of demands on my time, like work, and I have a big project, and then we're moving. So there's a lot going on here. So I don't think I'm going to do a free trial. And if you know we check in in a month, and I only have two people signed up, then I can reevaluate. But I just I think you're right. Like I think the overhead of that right now with what else I have going on in my life is not is not something like I really want to handle. But it's something I can always revisit in the future. Right?

Michele Hansen  24:38  
Yeah. And I think it'll be interesting over the next few weeks as you have a bunch of those for free trial. Users converting into paid and I guess like, when we talk last week, you had 117 people who were actively using the Add on so like, do they get to use it for free forever or do they get converted into a plan like how does that work, so they

Colleen Schnettler  25:03  
won't convert to a plan unless I force them to convert to a plan. And I'm, I'm torn, like, like I said, like a lot of the people who are using it are not using it heavily. So what I did is I put an upper limit on the amount of storage they can have. And if they hit it, they'll have to upgrade but I'm not, at least not today, right now, again, maybe in a couple months. When I see where I am, I'll change my mind. But I'm not going to force those early adopters to upgrade. Now I might be able to use this as to my advantage to email them and be like, hey, there's no longer a free plan. But if you have a conversation with me, I'll let you keep your free plan. I don't know. I feel like there's opportunity to like kind of be like, hey, if you talk to me, I'll keep I won't kick you off. Even though I don't offer a free plan anymore. I'll let you keep your free plan, I think I don't know,

Michele Hansen  25:56  
I think it's reasonable to let them stay on the free plan as a legacy thing. As long as you have a limit there. That's, you know, that that's, like, sustainable for you. I don't know if you necessarily need to incentivize them to upgrade because, you know, I was talking to somebody about this on Twitter the other day, right? Like, I feel like those are the kind of tactics that really work in consumer when you're trying to convince someone to do something, but a business process exists. And you can try to incentivize it, but like, it's just, it's going to exist, how it's going to exist. And that that's a hard thing to push. And so yeah, I think you can just kind of let those people float there for the

Colleen Schnettler  26:43  
for the time, but yeah, they're not there. Like I said, none of them are using a ton of storage yet. So I'm just mindful of like, the amount of storage they're using, but I think I think I'm gonna let them let them float. Yeah. So this week, this upcoming week, my goal is I really liked spending Monday, individually emailing people, because it did result in to customer interviews. So I'm really excited to finally have these customer interviews going after dragging my feet so long. And I'm really excited to talk to more people.

Michele Hansen  27:12  
I'm excited for you. And you know, so talking about things that we have promised each other we would do and then dragged our feet on. So I finally did something that I think you and my husband and other people have been telling me to do for a long time, which I have resisted. Which is delegating.

Unknown Speaker  27:38  
Oh,

Colleen Schnettler  27:38  
did you hire someone? Michele?

Michele Hansen  27:40  
No, no, no, but okay. So since our episode with other Michelle from Squared Away a couple of months ago, like I remember getting off of that and being like, Oh my god, it would be so amazing to have a virtual assistant. Like, it sounds so awesome. And my husband was like, Yeah, like, you should totally get one. I was like, No, no, like, I like I don't need one, like, you know, and it just like, it felt like, you know, like a luxury to me, you know, like the business equivalent of like, I don't know, buying myself, like a designer watch or something. I was like, No, that's like, that's not for me. Like, I'm not gonna, you know. So, um, but then, you know, I've spent the last couple of weeks like in total, you know, closing our books, like, spreadsheet mania, and like, that was like, you know, what, I don't have to be doing all of our bookkeeping anymore. I have some other like, random projects I have to do with like, updating addresses on contracts and stuff like that. And, like, you know what, maybe I should like, get a VA to do this. But then I was like, but that sounds like so much work just to get them set up. Like, I'll just do it myself. That's where I was like two weeks ago. And then as I was waiting through the spreadsheet again, this week, I was like, You know what, actually, I should get a VA. So I finally like emailed squared away to inquire about getting some help.

Colleen Schnettler  29:12  
Nice. I'm so proud of you.

Michele Hansen  29:14  
You know what you do with delegating?

Colleen Schnettler  29:16  
I know you do. Like I feel like that's another theme of our podcast is huge. As I tell you to hire someone and you tell me No.

Michele Hansen  29:25  
I don't know if I'm just like, scarred from like too many high school group projects or something. But like, I have, like a lot of trouble with with delegating, and like, you know, I think when you're overwhelmed with something like to me the idea of like spending all of the time to get somebody else started on a task. I'm like, I could just do it and like half the time, it's like not even, you know, but then I end up with a million tasks and I don't need to be doing all of them. And I you know, I like I think we are at a point where I can hire someone for like 15 hours a week.

Colleen Schnettler  30:00  
So is it working? Is it working out?

Michele Hansen  30:03  
Well, so I haven't actually hired them yet. Like I have only I, I submitted. Oh,

Colleen Schnettler  30:09  
you don't get the gold seal? Yeah, no, I

Michele Hansen  30:11  
did it. I did expect the contact form submission to like burst out and confetti and say like, Congratulations, you've taken the first step towards delegating. Yeah, like you get confetti when you buy a stock on Robin Hood. Like why not? When you you know, try to get a va? We should give Michelle that some feedback. I would like some very serious need, like some good petty petty, and cowbell. No. So, so we'll see. So that'll be like something for me to, to work on over the next couple of weeks.

Colleen Schnettler  30:43  
I think that's great. I think this is gonna be so good for you.

Unknown Speaker  30:48  
I think so too.

Colleen Schnettler  30:49  
I look really hesitant. But I'm proud of you for taking this first step.

Michele Hansen  30:53  
I took the first step. So and I have been like promising you or probably not promising you just brushing it off for a long time.

Colleen Schnettler  31:04  
Oh, yeah. From like, since we've started this podcast, I've been like, why don't you get some help? And you're always like, no one could do

Unknown Speaker  31:10  
it as good as me. That's not what I said, when we made

Unknown Speaker  31:14  
this kind of when she said

Michele Hansen  31:17  
they could probably do better quality, but I know that I can do it quickly.

Colleen Schnettler  31:23  
Well, I hope I don't think that's just you know, I hope this gets going for you. And the time to help your VA get setup is worth it. And hopefully, you know, once you guys are rolling, which I guess will be in a month or so you'll have found that it is lifted some of the burden. I mean, you have a lot going on in your personal life right now. So I feel like lifting this a little bit of your burden is going to be great.

Michele Hansen  31:45  
Yeah, and I think I can like I can spring for this, you know, it kind of feels like you know, the equivalent of like, getting a personal trainer or something except for my business life. Like it feels like a luxury but also it's like, also I need to do this for my my sanity. So yeah,

Colleen Schnettler  32:03  
yeah. Awesome. Well, that's great news. I'm excited to hear how it goes.

Michele Hansen  32:07  
I guess on that high note, we will end this week's episode. I just wanted to thank everybody for all of your nice things you said on Twitter this week, like I mean, it was seriously amazing. I feel like every time I opened Twitter, there was somebody else saying how much they enjoyed last week's episode. And that just makes this podcast really fun to do. So thank you. We'll talk to you next week.