Conversations about programming. By Andreas Ekeroot and Lars Wikman, funded by Underjord.io.
Similar Podcasts
The Rabbit Hole: The Definitive Developer's Podcast
Welcome to The Rabbit Hole, the definitive developers podcast. If you are a software developer or technology leader looking to stay on top of the latest news in the software development world, or just want to learn actionable tactics to improve your day-to-day job performance, this podcast is for you.
The Real Python Podcast
A weekly Python podcast hosted by Christopher Bailey with interviews, coding tips, and conversation with guests from the Python community.
The show covers a wide range of topics including Python programming best practices, career tips, and related software development topics.
Join us every Friday morning to hear what's new in the world of Python programming and become a more effective Pythonista.
Elixir Mix
Elixir Mix is a weekly show focused on the Elixir programming community. Our panel discusses topics around functional programming, the Elixir ecosystem, and building real world apps with Elixir based tools and frameworks.
About Ending Things
The End.LinksLADOKSanne Kalkman - companies should hire junior developersMünchenbryggerietThe art of gatheringDead dog partyNobody wants thisNeon genesis evangelionGhost in the shell: stand alone complexSerial experiments LainHackersBlack mirrorWilliam GibsonBurning chromeNeil StephensonThe Bridge trilogys-CRY-edFullmetal alchemistHellsingSamurai ChamplooBlack lagoon
About the Least Powerful Abstraction
Imagine Andreas going around making annoying electronic sounds all the time.Strike that. Andreas and Lars discuss using less power - less fancy abstractions - to make things easier to understand. Andreas likes to do a de-powering pass to code.Avoid making something which is more general than is useful.Lars goes into the lure of event sourcing - going for very high data resolution - it might come in handy! - at the cost of a lot of other things - how do we prevent duplicate user names?You've got to love a JSON blob.Finally, Lars derails Andreas' arrow of time and discussion of locking things down early when possible.LinksPower gloveGhost in the shell 2Stand alone complexUnlimited power!For-comprehensionsNerveshubRESTSquiggleThe lenses paper - Functional Programming with Bananas, Lenses, Envelopes and Barbed WireNot hot dogDomain-driven designEvent sourcingCQRSSaga - event sourcing patternData lakeData lakehouseEctoPenny Arcade - On discomfortPrince of Persia: The sands of time
About Licenses
How do people learn about licenses?If you entered into software in a certain way, it's easy to assume that everyone is a part-time license attorney. But how do other people pick up license knowledge? And what does one really need to know?Licenses underpin open source but seem kind of dull. But they are also a cool and special thing about the software industry.Lars provides his licenses 101 thoughts and looks forward to becoming open source grandpa.LinksGPLBSD licenseMIT licenseApache licenseLGPLAGPL - Affero licenseOSIOpen source licenses tried in courtSource-availableCockroachBSL - business source licenseFOSDEMOxide & friends on how they handle the CockroachDB thingForkingTerraformOpentofuElasticsearchOpensearchRedisValkeyThe Redis-Valkey-storyThe XZ backdoorAndres Freund - The Microsoftie who found the issueVisual studio codeVSCodiumGitpodcode-serverEmbrace, extend, extinguishDockerPodmanHashicorpSaltAnsibleTerraformStallmanCompisApple IIMySQLCLA - contributor license agreementKelsey HightowerVLCWinampSlackwareDebianCoding freedom - book by Gabriella Coleman (full PDF)FreeBSDIdeell föreningMoomin dadSnufkinPettsonJussi BjörlingGramophone player
About Learning New Languages
Everyone's favorite idempotent podcast returns to discuss learning new languages and concepts. Can mixing and matching new concepts and syntax help or hinder language adoption? A new concept but a familiar syntax might make a language easier for all the drifting Javascript developers to grab on to.Lars considers picking up a lisp at some point.It's harder to pick up new languages when you're mainly keen on building. Lars is very much in a building phase. He has problems, but they are his problems.Lars is currently learning - among other things - by working with other people, putting himself out there, and arranging a conference.LinksAlan PerlisA language that does not affect the way you're thinking is not worth knowingDomain-specific languagesRailsPhoenixElixirErlangPrologGleamElmThe CodeBEAM Gleam keynote by Hayleigh Thompson and Louis Pilfold is not out in video form yetAnt (the build system)BashXLST - Extensible Stylesheet Language TransformationsXquerySAX parserSweetXmlExercism course on GleamLustre web frameworkSprocket web framework - Gleam-style implementation of LiveviewOTPAtomVMCardputerREPL - read-eval-print loopNIFGHC - the Haskell compilerLuaDave Lucia and Robert Virding talking about Lua on the BEAM - also not out in video form yetThe Konami codeUiuaZFSEvan - creator of Elm - in Kodsnack 604SmalltalkPony
About C
Wherein the wonders of C are explored.But first, let Andreas tell you what's so great about Chalmers' approach to teaching computer engineering. Spoiler: starting with Haskell, close to math.The tooling around C: cultural mystery meat.Lars tries out a shocking plan for a productive framework for C!It's very cool to be able to just poke memory. Memory, arrays, structs, and strings are discussed. Strings are a bundle of fun. Arrays are desugared.Finally, a dive into the wonderful world of interoperability, both with and without C directly involved.LinksRustCD latchesGymnasiet - roughly upper secondary school or high schoolC++AutotoolsAutoconfLinux from scratchSlackwareDebianMakefilesBashGNU MakeBuildrootCmakeZigTOMLIsaac who does Zigler for ElixirPOSIXWin32 API:sLibuvSIMDB-treeRedisErlang NIFCocoa - the wild Elixir community member integrating stuffOpenCVPythonx - run Python from within ElixirLuaLuerlLFE - Lisp flavoured ErlangFennel - lispier LuaChicken Scheme
About Defining Functional Programming
What is functional programming?Andreas grabs his whiteboard and his Turing machine, and starts from laziness, while Lars thinks of immutability, functions, and data.Is syntax important for being functional or not?The functionalness of various languages are delved into, from Haskell to Rust via Python, Go, and Ruby. And, of course, the evil version of Elixir.A good pipeline can be really nice.Oh, and you shouldn't use witchcraft anymore.LinksFunctional programmingHaskellLazy evaluationLambda calculusTuring machinesAlonzo ChurchGödel - "A German guy" who formalized the definition general recursive functionsImmutabilityPure functionsWitchcraftContinuation passingPartial applicationCurryingThe ML language familyWhy the lucky stiffSam AaronSonic piRocClojureAST - abstract syntax treeUVThe UV company: AstralMemoizationSingleton
About Giving Talks
Lars wants a less demanding way to prepare for giving talks, but he doesn't have the time right now.Andreas knows a cheat code for public speaking. Lars uses slides like a blunt instrument.How should you wield your slides? How do you weigh information content against entertainment value? Should you try to reach precisely everyone with your talk? Many slides, or few? Lars has the questions, and some of the answers, at least for himself.Last but not least, Lars reveals his current way of preparing for talks. It ideally involves getting quite bored.LinksProof of Andreas speaking in publicSverokBeamer - write your slides in LaTeXLars' Gigcity Elixir talkJosé ValimChris McCordØredevLars' Øredev talkLars Lisbon talk - Lively LiveViewCode BEAM BerlinJon CarstensNull modemErlang clustersWireguardOpen source summitAnother brick in the wall
About Developer Experience
What are people talking about when they talk about developer experience? Pretty colors in the terminal?What is worth improving, what is not? Lars has thoughts about all of developer experience, not least the one of Nerves. How flaky do you accept, for how fast?Revealed: why all Andreas' Elm programs are one line long.Also: Why not attend the Øredev developer conference in Malmö this November? LinksDX - developer experienceElmLanguage serverElixir's brand new official language server team unifies the work of the previous separate teamsThe Elm language serverMix - Elixir build toolNervesNervesHubNerves CloudBuildrootVintage - network configuration and management for Nerves devicesREPL - Read-evaluate-print loopCcacheIEx - Elixir's interactive shellHyllieØredevYoctoSKFBredbandsbolagetNervesHubLinkOTPSmalltalkLisp machinesBeam RadioBryan HunterRebar3
About Endings and Beginnings
Andreas' place of work ceased to exist.It was mostly a relief.The main worry is about resting and recovering enough before whatever comes next begins. All the learnings about how not to do certain things live on.The right way of doing those things still remains to be learned.Lars is on the other end of the spectrum: beginning completely new things. Figuring out where exactly Delaware is, finding a Nerves-shaped Elixir hole, wading through Python scripts, and so much more.Also: Why not attend the Øredev developer conference in Malmö this November? LinksLönegaranti - wage guaranteeUppsägningstid - notice periodAriaHyllieØredevFrank Hunleth talking about NervesNervesRaspbianRaspberry pi 3Raspberry pi zeroAdafruitInky pHAT e-ink displayLars' ported Inky libraryBuildrootYoctoNervesHubJosh KalderimisTravis CINerves CloudMilwaukeeDelawareStripe AtlasHeartbleedShellshockStagefrightRow hammerCrowdStrikeFlickswitchSmartRent
About Non-CRUD
CRUD - a classic term among supposedly simple web apps. But, not always the right move? Not always all that mappable to the actual problem?Discussed: picking spicy architectures, non-CRUD data storage needs, slovely solutions, dirty refunds, and doing the OAuth dance.Hey, thing happened!Finally: a story where pubsub was reasonable, and some telemetry.LinksCRUD - Create, read, update, deleteDjangoRuby on railsPhoenixAshRethinkDBMnesiaPlausible analyticsTimescaleClickhouseNervesconfAlex McLainNervesCubDBRocksDBDynamoDBThe DynamoDB paperEctoOAuth
About Embedded
Embedded is a weird thing. Lars is all Nerves and tries to explain and report from a world where people know part numbers off the top of their heads. The physical device missing is rarely a thing that happens in web development.Embedded-style work can sneak into other areas as well. Without a root file system, everything is a lot more secure. Security is a deep topic in general, and WPA is not just for wifi.Andreas shares his view of what "embedded" means, plus the story of building a really bad audio cable.LinksRaspberry piNervesFrank HunlethThreadripperCoral TPUTensor processing unitsAI kit for Raspberry pi 5Lars' Nervesconf talk is not out yetTI AM625ZephyrReal-time operating systemHAL - hardware abstraction layerHAL 9000OxideArm TrustzoneBuildrootLinux from scratchAlpineWolfiVintagenetwpa_supplicantEduroam802.1xPAP MS-CHAPEAPEAP-TLSOrangepiGet secrets by shooting lasers at security chipsNonceHMAC
About Interviewing
Andreas is a man of many hobbies. Interviewing for example. But sometimes, you get strange questions from strange people, end up feeling scared, or start lying just a bit. Then, perhaps, you tell the story of a bug. Perhaps we shouldn't work during the winter?Lars doesn't have interviews. More like sales calls. H§e shares his experiences of how to recruitment, both as part of interviews and as a more straightforward recruiter.Finally: the secret to everything Lars does.LinksPercy NilegårdHiring Processes with Gergely Orosz - Oxide and Friends (podcast)The Indiana Jones switchGigcity ElixirLars' conference reportChattanoogaNervesAmazon AuroraRewriting the Technical Interview
About Ranting at Ecto
Stories about Ecto quickly redeeming itself, and of what it takes to introduce foreign keys.Some of us are super comfortable referencing the ID. Lars dislikes that Ecto needs to be more complicated because of SQL, but the abstractions do hold.Also: the biggest reason to ever use a ORM! It can be reallynice to come back to one after a tour of plain SQL-land.Some people have just been bitten so hard by cowboys.LinksEctoForeign keysRethinkDBReferential integrityAXALantmännenModelForm in DjangoCowboy and PlugDSLUpsertsFragmentsHaxl - DSL for creating queriesSQLAlchemyets
About Long-Lived Code
Fredrik wants to think about long-lived code. Lars is offended, Andreas only a little bit so.Are there other good software development practices out there? Other than the ones focusing on building something quickly? Practices for building software which lives on and is maintained for much longer than we seem to care to admit? Should we remove dependencies over time? The swamp of dependency management and vendoring is probed, gradually shifting into firmware, the horrors of floating point (proper excuses are made), small language models.Finally, of course, indecent cups of tea.LinksLagomReactFlux architectureReduxChangelog episode with Justin Searls about dependencies as liabilitiesKent Beck talking about managing risks in software developmentKent Beck drawing on a whiteboard and staring at the audienceMithril.jsInteract.jsVendoringWorking effectively with legacy code - the book about legacy systemsDelphi 5FlaskDynamic linkingSAMLPOSIXLibcGlibcMuslH.264MicrocodeOxide and friendsCoral TPU:sTensorflow lite286PentiumCUDAROCmQuantizationLLaMA
About Fat Tuesday Buns
The Saint Valentine's peak passed without issue. Andreas had time for semlor.Lars has opinions on semlor, and can imagine many possible improvements. Like having an apple. Or a pizza.Lars has had a nice influx of work, including hardware work using Nerves. Testing and very hackish hot code reloading are both included.Finally, some thoughts on Linux audio, and musings about the possibility of creating really nice audio tools for the platform.LinksSaint ValentineThe strangler fig patternThe strangler patternPhoenixCowboySemlaMudcakeThe Swedish chef making chocolate mooseFinnish fastlagsbulle with jamOne of Lars' blog posts about NervesFrank Hunleth - also hot code reloads the way Lars has doneLars' Stream deck library for ElixirStream deckElgato key lightPulseAudioPipeWireRogue amoeba's audio tools for MacJACKCustom APT repositoryQuotesThe Nordics go all awkward and weirdIn my heart, it was a catastrophyHad time for semlorAn unimpressive pastryIt's less messy to have an appleProfessional nervesBuilding with nervesA reasonable enough abstractionThe Rogue Amoeba for Linux