Hello! This is The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of The Verge... and your life. Every Friday, Nilay Patel and Dieter Bohn make sense of the week's tech news with help from our wide-ranging staff. Join us every week for a fun, deeply nerdy, often off-the-rails conversation about what's happening now (and next) in technology and gadgets.
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Hacker And The Fed
Former FBI Special Agent Chris Tarbell and ex-Anonymous/LulzSec blackhat hacker Hector Monsegur (aka Sabu) faced off as adversaries in cyberspace before becoming close friends and podcast co-hosts.
Listen to Tarbell, co-founder of the elite cybersecurity firm NAXO, and Monsegur, a top network penetration tester and security engineer, break down the must-know cybersecurity news and topics of the week. You’ll walk away from each episode with unique perspectives on keeping your family, your company, and yourself safe from cyber attacks.
Inside the early days of the AI revolution
Kevin Roose's new book, The AGI Chronicles, tells the story of the AI revolution. He joins the show to explain its earliest beginnings: the researchers who discovered what language models could do, the people who debated whether humans or computers should are more special, and the executives who started the companies that currently rule our economy. What do they want, and what are they building? Further reading: Kevin Roose is AGI-pilled. Why aren’t you? Machine Gods The AGI Chronicles Apple refreshes the iMac with M6 chips Apple updates the MacBook Pro with M6 chips Palmer Luckey’s Anduril is getting into laptops — and claims they’ll be American-made OpenAI announces three big science discoveries and a new way to work with academics Data center backlash is uniting America Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Files are over. All you need are URLs
We talk a lot about where the computer is, and where your stuff is. Paul Ford, a co-founder of Aboard and longtime tech blogger, recently built a tool called TinyLittleOffice that puts all the stuff in an unexpected place: the URL. Paul joins the show to explain how the web and the cloud have become powerful development tools, what it means to store a document in its domain, and why tiny, disposable software could make a comeback in the age of AI. Further reading: A YouTuber dissected an iPhone Duo and thinks he found the cause of crackgate Anthropic’s IPO filing lays out a plan to ‘revolutionize every area of human endeavor’ with AI Apple updates the iPad Mini with a larger OLED display Tiny Little Office Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The iPhone Duo should have been an iPad
We gave the iPhone Duo a 7 /10. But that wasn’t always the score we planned, and it might not be the right score forever. Such are the challenges of reviewing — and assessing — a big, new idea about the most popular smartphone in history. On this episode of The Vergecast, David and Nilay debate whether the Duo deserved the score it got, and try to work through how this device might change over time. After that, the hosts talk about the huge PHP cybersecurity flaw that rocked the web this week, the ongoing increase in AI shopping, an impending reboot inside of Netflix, and some very confusing Gemini news. Also, Brendan Carr is a Dummy. Further reading: The iPhone Duo is a messy, expensive, good time All the news about the iPhone Duo Daring Fireball: The iPhone Duo PHP: The three little letters wreaking havoc across the web AI agents are ready to shop. Some retailers are wary Walmart is inviting AI agents to shop for you 10 million people have already set up Muse agents. Netflix is telling investors not to worry, even though you’re watching less and less Google’s more personalized Gemini AI is heading to your car Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. 0:00 No Sevens Pact 01:03 Show Agenda Setup 01:46 Duo Score Debate 03:08 App Optimization Phases 07:47 Two Thousand Dollar Problem 10:44 iPad Not iPhone 14:41 Outer Screen Compromises 18:04 Developer Badges Future 20:34 Early Adopter Reality 30:19 Handoff eSIM Limitations 34:49 PHP Shell Chaos 36:17 PHP Under the Hood 37:46 AI Finds the Exploit 40:46 Disclosure Panic Fallout 42:44 Patch Now or Go Dark 45:58 Autonomous Defense Arms Race 48:42 Agents Break the Web 53:04 Muse Adoption Shopping Stats 54:11 Bots Buying Movie Tickets 01:01:05 Instagram Deepfake Crisis 01:07:30 Brendan Carr is a Dummy 01:10:06 FCC Threatens Poll Coverage 01:17:44 FCC Free Speech Alarm 01:20:20 The Lightning Round 01:20:49 Arc Browser Shutdown 01:23:12 AI Browsers Future 01:27:14 Meta Terms Backlash 01:34:04 Netflix Identity Crisis 01:43:16 Gemini Confusion Car 01:49:12 Wrap Up And Awards Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Why Tesla needs its cars to fly
Tesla recently showed off a new version of its Roadster. Well, a new version of its old version of the Roadster, anyway. But this one flies! The Verge's Andy Hawkins joins the show to explain the last decade of the Roadster saga, make sense of the flying and kickflipping new vehicle, and cast out into the future of Tesla's cars for humans. If there even is one. Further reading: The incredible flying Tesla Roadster is just for show The Tesla Roadster flew, drove upside down, and hit 60mph in under a second Trump says Sundar Pichai talked him out of renaming the Atlantic Ocean 1Password lets AI agents use your passwords without seeing them The world’s first triple 200-megapixel cameraphone is great Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How we really feel about the iPhone Duo | Livestream
iPhone Duo reviews are out today and... it's complicated. David Pierce, Nilay Patel and senior smart phone reviewer Allison Johnson talk through The Verge's review and answer your questions LIVE. Further reading: The iPhone Duo is a messy, expensive, good time iPhone Duo review: messy, expensive fun Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
AI is dividing the math world in two
Over the last several months, the AI industry has set its sights on some of the problems that have stymied mathematicians for years. In some cases, AI models have made huge progress — though exactly how much isn't always obvious. The Verge's Robert Hart explains what OpenAI and others have actually accomplished, the disastrously bad ways the companies have interacted with researchers, and whether there's a future left for human mathematics. Further reading: Spotify pulls 50 million AI slop and spam tracks from its recommendations Adobe Lightroom mobile can now open closed eyes in photos with a simple tap Wii Sports is back on the Switch 2, and it rules All the drama around AI’s takeover of mathematics | The Verge OpenAI keeps bulldozing mathematicians | The Verge OpenAI just wants to win | The Verge The AI takeover of mathematics has begun | The Verge ‘Pure insanity’: Mathematicians will need years to make sense of OpenAI’s latest drop | The Verge Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Why your favorite creator is building an app
Creator life involves using a lot of software. Bad software. Stephen Robles is one of the creators who decided to build something better, for himself and for his community. He tells David how he thinks about his responsibility as a developer, how he makes apps, and how AI is changing the way he builds things for his audience. Further reading: Apple teases MacBook Pro event next week You Can See Everything has the biggest opening weekend for a doc in 20 years TikTok says ban of Musk documentary account was ‘an error’ Video game ownership bill introduced in Congress Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Apple's HomeView has an app problem
Well, it's been a couple of days, and David and Nilay have some more information — and a bunch of new questions — about the Apple HomeView. They also talk about the latest Gemini model, and whether building the best model matters if you can't build the best products around them. They then debate the merits of returning to X, why none of the supposed Twitter replacements worked, the latest in Brendan Carr nonsense, and more. Further reading: HomeView doesn’t natively support any video apps yet — not even Apple’s Apple’s new Find My-compatible remote will also work with your old Apple TV The AI race is back on Google finally releases Gemini 4 Argon Google brings its AI coding platform to its Gemini app on Mac. Google makes it easier to launch your vibe-coded apps OpenAI employee arrested for allegedly planting a bug in a conference room OpenAI claims an ex-employee took its product plans and presented them to Apple Now that Character.AI is going bankrupt, what happens to all of its users’ data? Daring Fireball: X Once Again Marks the Spot Platformer: Does intelligence need a hard cap? SpaceX announces plan to become a ‘major mobile carrier’ JPMorgan Chase is keeping AI agents out. Xbox is officially embracing the chaos of AI-powered game ports Global smartphone sales just hit a 14-year low. Silicon Valley is falling in line with Trump’s attempt to rename AI The US government launched a “Super Intelligence” website. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. 0:00 CarPlay Banter01:36 HomeView App Confusion03:40 CarPlay as Home OS08:31 Apple Hardware Software Bet13:28 Should It Just Be an iPad?14:31 Gemini 4 Returns16:18 Meta Muse Strategy19:54 Google Product Dilemma26:28 OpenAI Bugging Scandal29:49 Character AI Bankruptcy32:31 Bankrupt Data Goldmine33:00 Privacy After Shutdown36:55 Why People Return to X39:35 Threads Fumbled It40:49 X Owns AI Talk49:17 Who Should Use X49:57 Reporters And Sources53:00 Video Platforms Win54:44 Gruber Gets It Wrong01:01:29 Brendan Carr is a Dummy01:02:40 Execution Livestream Fallout01:07:21 Sprint Merger Fallout01:08:48 Dish Spectrum to SpaceX01:09:44 Can Starlink Compete01:11:30 SpaceX Phone Rumors01:13:55 Smartphone Sales Slump01:18:37 Agents vs Websites01:24:21 Why UI Still Matters01:26:43 Super Intelligence Rebrand01:30:37 AI Game Decompiling01:36:35 Wrap Up and Plugs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Everything's recording everybody. What now?
Meta just shipped a pair of smart glasses with no camera — a change that both David and The Verge's Victoria Song are excited about. But these glasses, like the new product from Amazon Bee and seemingly everything else now, are still ready and willing to record the world around you at all times. What do we do in a world where everything, everywhere, might be recording? And can tech companies figure out a way to make us feel better about it? You have until Thursday to vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Further reading: Prep your cart before iPhone Duo preorders open tomorrow OpenAI agrees not to use trade secrets it allegedly took from Apple Your secrets aren’t safe with this cute robot toy — they’re on Chinese servers ready to be hacked I don’t miss the camera on the Ray-Ban Meta Audio glasses Amazon’s always-listening Bee wearable can now help you buy stuff We can’t just change the definition of ‘recording’ Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The $8 million AI music scam
A man named Mike Smith was recently sentenced to 18 months in prison, and a fine in excess of $8 million, for creating an AI system that faked billions of streams and earned him millions in royalties. Wired's Kate Knibbs explains how Smith pulled it off, how he got caught, and what this case means for the internet's growing slop problems. Vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Further reading: Apple’s HomeView ad is confusing to everyone except parents | The Verge Ocarina of Time’s Switch 2 remake feels modern — and terrifying | The Verge We might not have to wait 13 years for the next GTA | The Verge Epic is bringing Fortnite to Linux | The Verge JPMorgan Chase is keeping AI agents out. | The Verge Wired: Spotify Confirms Streaming Fraud After Kalshi Trader Cries Foul Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
HomeView: Apple just got serious about the smart home | Livestream
Apple just announced its long-rumored HomeView smart home hub. But that's not all... there are cameras, thermostats and a door lock co-developed with LG and Schneider Electric, refreshed HomePod Minis, even a new Apple TV 4K. The Verge's senior smart home reviewer Jennifer Pattinson Tuohy joined Nilay Patel and David Pierce LIVE to discuss and take your questions about Apple's massive play to take over your house. You have until Thursday to vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Further reading: Apple launches HomeView, its first smart display for the home The new Apple Home Collection includes a video doorbell, smart lock, and more Apple announces the HomePod Mini 2, but it isn’t ready for Siri AI at launch The new Apple TV 4K has built-in microphones so you can talk to Siri AI Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The AI is in the computer
It's gadget season. More specifically, it's apparently "new computer for your new AI" season. David and Nilay talk through a slew of announcements — Amazon's Alexa Tablets, Microsoft's Surface Laptop Ultra, the new Googlebooks, and Apple's upcoming smart home launch — to figure out if anyone has the right idea about the future of computing, and where the AI is supposed to live. After that, it's time for Brendan Carr is a Dummy, our thoughts on the Paramount / Warner / Skydance merger, and much more. Please vote for The Verge's podcasts in the Signal listener's choice awards! Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast We’re also on video! Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Read more about the topics discussed in today's 1 hour, 41 minute podcast: Amazon’s Alexa Tablets are powerful, impressive, and designed to take on iPad Hands-on with Amazon’s Alexa Tablet 12 Pro and its wild new matte display Amazon is phasing out Fire Tablets because they weren’t ‘giving customers what they were asking for’ Amazon’s new Kids Tablets let parents manage access to the Google Play store Apple announces surprise ‘Welcome home’ launch event Apple and LG team up on new smart home gear, starting with a lock, doorbell, and thermostat New leaks provide our first look at Apple and LG’s smart home devices Everything announced at Microsoft’s Surface Laptop Ultra event The Surface Laptop Ultra finally has a release date — and a starting price of $2,599 Microsoft’s Surface Laptop Ultra has built-in magnetic USB-C charging How Microsoft built its MacBook Pro competitor Surface RTX Spark Dev Box is available for preorder for $5,999 The first Nvidia RTX Spark laptops cost up to $7,000 Microsoft is giving Copilot more control over Windows and your files Our first five impressions of Googlebooks — exciting but underbaked Android’s physical navigation buttons are back on Googlebooks, but not the way you think Google admits not every Android app runs great on Intel Googlebooks Politico: ‘Head on a guillotine’: ABC says Trump’s threats are already swaying coverage ChatGPT’s ‘Intelligent UI’ update fills its responses with pictures, charts, and buttons Paramount and Warner Bros. Discovery complete $110 billion media megamerger HBO Max and Paramount Plus will merge into a single streamer under Skydance CNN’s boss will remain as Paramount and WBD merge into Skydance Skydance is merging Paramount and Warner Bros. Discovery’s games teams. Sam Altman says ‘some bad things’ will happen, but AI is totally worth it 0:00 Cold Open 00:37 David’s back! 01:10 Parenting Chaos Update 02:49 Gadget News Rundown 03:47 New Amazon Alexa Tablets 05:15 Panos Strategy Shift 06:31 Play Store Bet 11:17 Default Android Tablet 13:18 Ads and Pricing Fears 15:30 Amazon Great Products 21:20 Matte Display Debate 25:01 Apple Smart Home Tease 26:12 Siri AI Reality Check 29:08 Smart Home Too Complex 33:37 Candy Crush Question 34:56 iPad Multiuser Problem 39:04 Microsoft AI Surface Push 40:35 Local AI Computing Shift 47:22 Magnetic USB C Charging 48:37 Google Book Laptop Confusion 54:20 AI Agents Need A Surface 58:50 Skepticism About Agents 01:07:46 Brendan Carr is a Dummy 01:09:23 ABC License Chilling Effect 01:11:24 Brendan Carr Ownership Cap 01:12:30 Cable Companies Sue Back 01:14:44 SXSW Corruption Game 01:15:50 Skydance Mega Merger 01:18:04 Debt Layoffs Streamer Cuts 01:22:58 Go90 Scale Returns 01:24:02 Netflix Loses Its Edge 01:30:44 ChatGPT Interactive UI 01:37:47 Sam Altman Tradeoffs 01:44:49 Wrap Up And Plugs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The many pluses and minuses of Alexa Plus
Amazon is determined to turn Alexa Plus into a do-everything AI assistant that can compete with Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, and the rest. But after a year of testing, The Verge's Jen Tuohy has mixed feelings on how it's all going. And on whether a new tablet is the right way to fix it. Further reading: It appears .agent and .agi are about to be the hot new domains GTA VI leaks continue with a lengthy (and very nude) gameplay video GTA VI will have in-game podcasts and at least six radio stations Joe Rogan and Spotify renew massive podcast deal Alexa Plus is better at running my home, but it’s not ready to run my life Hands-on with Amazon’s Alexa Tablet 12 Pro and its wild new matte display Amazon is phasing out Fire Tablets because they weren’t ‘giving customers what they were asking for’ The Vergecast has been nominated for a Signal Award! You can vote to help us win here. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The hot new thing in headphones
Bose, Sony, Beats, and seemingly every other headphone maker has recently released a new and excellent set of cans. Or buds. Or both. The Verge's John Higgins explains why the headphone market is suddenly so great, how the companies are competing now, and which new pair is the right one for you. Vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Further reading: The Sonos Ace Ultra are the headphones Sonos should have made the first time Nothing’s new flagship Headphone 1 Pro put you in the studio The Beats 360 are what I’d bring to the gym if I hated earbuds The premium AirPods 5 are the best open-ear earbuds Apple has made Six years later, Sony revisits its legendary XM4 headphones Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How much should you tell your AI agent?
The next big thing in AI, at least if you ask the tech companies, is assistant agents. David and The Verge's Allison Johnson have both been testing products like Meta's Muse, OpenAI's Dots, and startups like Instinct, in an effort to find out how much you can really get done by messaging with an AI tool – and whether the productivity is worth the tradeoffs. Further reading: Paramount and Warner Bros. Discovery complete $110 billion media megamerger Amazon reportedly pays $120 million to stream the Emmys for free New leaks reveal more details about the Fitbit Edge including its price A Trump Mobile breach may have exposed data of more than 3,600 people OpenAI’s Dot agent can help you work and order dinner Meta’s Muse AI agent is an effective helper and great at spending money The Vergecast has been nominated for a Signal Award! You can vote to help us win here. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices