Hello! This is The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of The Verge... and your life. Every Friday, Nilay Patel and Dieter Bohn make sense of the week's tech news with help from our wide-ranging staff. Join us every week for a fun, deeply nerdy, often off-the-rails conversation about what's happening now (and next) in technology and gadgets.
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Ring's adorable surveillance hellscape
Did you see Ring's Super Bowl ad and see happy puppies reunited with their owners? Or did you see the seeds of a complete, always-on surveillance nightmare coming for us all? David and Nilay discuss which is the right answer, why so many people don't want to trust tech companies, and why Ring might not care much about the difference. After that, the hosts discuss the ads coming to ChatGPT, the surprising number of AI executives quitting their jobs and issuing dire warnings on the way out, and the fake ad for OpenAI gadgets. In the lightning round, it's time for an extra long Brendan Carr is a Dummy, the latest Ferrari EV, the future of Siri, and more. Further reading: Jeffrey Epstein’s digital cleanup crew Jeffrey Epstein might not have created /pol/, but he helped carry out its mission Amazon Ring’s lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance Wyze is sticking it to Ring Sen. Markey calls on Amazon to “discontinue” Ring monitoring features Ring’s new Search Party feature is on by default; should you opt out? Ring launches upgraded cameras with Retinal Vision 4K recording What the Guthrie case reveals about your ‘deleted’ doorbell footage FBI releases recovered footage from Nancy Guthrie’s Nest cam OpenAI’s first hardware slips to 2027 OpenAI’s supposedly ‘leaked’ Super Bowl ad with ear buds and a shiny orb was a hoax Two more xAI co-founders are among those leaving after the SpaceX merger OpenAI reportedly disbanded its Mission Alignment team OpenAI fired exec who opposed ‘adult mode’ Read an Anthropic AI safety lead's exit letter: 'The world is in peril' Opinion | I Left My Job at OpenAI. Putting Ads on ChatGPT Was the Last Straw. What Is Claude? Anthropic Doesn’t Know, Either ChatGPT’s cheapest options now show you ads Here are the brands bringing ads to ChatGPT Claude gets more free features to capitalize on ChatGPT ads Ex-OpenAI researcher has “deep reservations” about its approach to ads Brendan Carr is a Dummy theme submitted by Michiel Vanhoudt on BlueSky FTC says it’s ‘not the speech police’ in letter warning Apple News about its alleged promotion of left-leaning outlets Ferrari’s first EV will have an interior designed by Jony Ive Here’s what the Ferrari Luce’s buttons, switches, and knobs sound like. The early reviews of the Rivian R2 are starting to roll in Live Nation’s monopoly trial is reportedly fracturing Trump’s Justice Department YouTube is coming to the Apple Vision Pro Apple keeps hitting bumps with its overhauled Siri The iPhone 17e could launch soon with MagSafe and an A19 chip Apple might let you use ChatGPT from CarPlay Paramount ups its offer for Warner Bros. Discovery, again Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Could the Trump Phone be a good phone?
The Trump Phone is real! Ish! The Verge’s Dom Preston has seen a T1 on a video call, that we can say for sure. Dom joins the show to explain what’s new about the phone, whether it has a chance to be a decent device, and why it’s taken so long for Trump Mobile to ship the thing. After that, The Verge’s Hayden Field explains the excitement around OpenClaw and Moltbook, and whether either one is a big moment for the AI industry. Finally, The Verge’s Andy Hawkins helps us answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline (866-VERGE11) about whether, and when, Tesla might get out of the car business altogether. Further reading: This is the Trump Phone The Trump Phone no longer promises it’s made in America 600,000 Trump Mobile phones sold? There’s no proof. OpenClaw: all the news about the trending AI agent OpenClaw’s AI ‘skill’ extensions are a security nightmare There’s a social network for AI agents, and it’s getting weird Humans are infiltrating the social network for AI bots Tesla discontinuing Model S and Model X to make room for robots Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How Epstein became a tech influencer
A new tranche of Jeffrey Epstein’s emails makes one thing painfully clear: Epstein was a central figure in the lives of a lot of big names in tech, and had influence on a surprising number of companies and executives. David and Nilay talk through what we’ve learned from the new emails so far. Then they turn to Anthropic’s spicy new Super Bowl ads about... ads, which caused a big reaction from OpenAI (which is betting big on ads). They also discuss this week’s antitrust hearing about Netflix’s purchase of Warner Bros., the latest in Brendan Carr is a Dummy, Google Home’s big buttons upgrade, and much more. Further reading: Here's how Epstein broke the internet Former Windows 8 boss recruited Epstein to help negotiate his messy Microsoft exit Jeffrey Epstein arranged a meeting with Tim Cook for the former head of Windows The Epstein files Google co-founder Sergey Brin visited Epstein’s private island and traded emails with Ghislaine Maxwell. It turns out Elon Musk didn’t exactly ‘refuse’ the invite to Jeffrey Epstein’s island. Will Elon Musk’s emails with Jeffrey Epstein derail his very important year? Bill Gates says accusations contained in Epstein files are ‘absolutely absurd' Jeffrey Epstein was permanently banned from Xbox Live ‘We’ve basically funded an elite global pedophile ring since 2015.’ Anthropic says ‘Claude will remain ad-free,’ unlike an unnamed rival Anthropic’s blog post: Claude is a space to think Sam Altman responds to Anthropic’s ‘funny’ Super Bowl ads OpenAI’s CMO on X Nvidia CEO denies he’s ‘unhappy’ with OpenAI Netflix lands in the middle of a culture war during Senate hearing Everyone is stealing TV Disney says Josh D’Amaro will replace Bob Iger as CEO FCC aims to ensure “only living and lawful Americans” get Lifeline benefits Elon Musk is merging SpaceX and xAI to build data centers in space — or so he says Peloton’s gamble on expensive new hardware has yet to pay off Google Home finally adds support for buttons Raspberry Pi is raising prices again as memory shortages continue Valve’s Steam Machine has been delayed, and the RAM crisis will impact pricing Aluminium: Why Google’s Android for PC launch may be messy and controversial Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Millions of books died so Claude could live
AI companies want all the data, everywhere, to make their models bigger and better. That means a lot of questions about piracy and copyright, and at least in one case it means Anthropic systematically destroying countless books just to feed them to the model. The Washington Post's Will Oremus joins the show to explain how that worked, why Anthropic, Meta, OpenAI and others are doing it, and what the law has to say. Then, Puck's Julia Alexander helps David figure out whether Netflix is serious about showing movies in theaters, and what theaters need to do to survive in the entertainment business going forward. Further reading: From The Washington Post: Anthropic ‘destructively’ scanned millions of books to build Claude Anthropic wins a major fair use victory for AI — but it’s still in trouble for stealing books Meta’s AI copyright win comes with a warning about fair use Did AI companies win a fight with authors? Technically From Puck: Why Netflix Needs Warner Bros. Welcome to the big leagues, Netflix Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Tim Cook is destroying his own legacy
We've been covering what's happening in Minnesota, and the killing of Alex Pretti, all week on The Verge. To begin this episode, Nilay explains why — and why so many others seem to feel the same way right now. After that, the hosts talk about the CEO-studded screening of Melania Trump's documentary last weekend, the disastrous public appearance from Tim Cook, and whether Cook and other CEOs have any other option but to capitulate to the Trump administration. Then it's time for some gadgets: we talk about the super-foldy, super-expensive Samsung Galaxy Z Trifold, the Clawdbot / Moltbot phenomenon, and whether Google can finally put Chrome OS and Android together the right way. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a dummy, Tesla's anti-car pivot, Apple's design hires, and more. Further reading: On the ground in Minneapolis after the killing of Alex Pretti I grew up with Alex Pretti Creators and communities everywhere take a stand against ICE It doesn’t matter if Alex Pretti had a gun Why won’t anyone stop ICE from masking? Tim Cook, Andy Jassy, and AMD CEO Lisa Su are at the White House for a VIP screening of the Melania doc. Tim Cook had ‘a good conversation’ with Trump about deescalation Cook in 2020: Speaking up on racism From The New York Times: Amazon’s $35 Million ‘Melania’ Promotion Has Critics Questioning Its Motives From The Hollywood Reporter: ‘Melania’ Set for a $3 Million Opening Despite Amazon’s $35 Million Marketing Push Here’s Tim Cook hanging out with accused rapist Brett Ratner at the Melania screening What TikTok’s new owners mean for your feed TikTok USA is broken TikTok is still down, here are all the latest updates TikTok is still struggling in the US due to a “cascading systems failure.” TikTok US is mostly back up and running TikTok blames its US problems on a power outage Oracle admits it broke TikTok. Congress doesn’t seem to know if the TikTok deal complies with its law Is New TikTok banning the word “Epstein” in DMs? Not really. TikTokers are heading to UpScrolled following US takeover Mark Zuckerberg is all in on AI as the new social media Meta is stopping teens from chatting with its AI characters Bluesky is testing ‘live’ features to take on X Best gas masks The Samsung Trifold will cost nearly three grand Google just leaked a first look at Android for PC in action Chromebooks train schoolkids to be loyal customers, internal Google document suggests Moltbot, the AI agent that ‘actually does things,’ is tech’s new obsession Clawdbot’s bad day I used Claude to vibe-code my wildly overcomplicated smart home The FCC’s Late Night Comedy Show Tesla discontinuing Model S and Model X to make room for robots Tesla says production-ready Optimus robot is coming soon Tesla hits a grim milestone: its second straight year of decline Elon Musk invests $2 billion in Elon Musk Hang on, there’s a Trump Phone Ultra coming too? Halide co-founder Sebastiaan de With is joining Apple’s design team The Stream Deck-packed gaming keyboard is a monster of good ideas Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Truth and AI in Minneapolis
Like so many others, we’re still reeling from the killing of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis. To open the show, we talk with Adi Robertson about how videos of the incident moved around social platforms, how even well-intentioned people got confused by AI imagery, and what we’ve learned about the state of misinformation. Then Adi explains the new TikTok, which is both the same and very different from the old TikTok. The newly US-centric version of the app has had some switching pains so far, and the changes may only be just beginning. After that, it’s time for a hard pivot, as Vulture’s Nick Quah joins the show to talk about Netflix’s entry into podcasts — and whether what Netflix is doing can even be called “podcasts” anymore. Finally, David answers an old Vergecast Hotline question that got him thinking about all the ways we hold our phones to make calls, and which one is the best. Further reading: It doesn’t matter if Alex Pretti had a gun The day of the second killing TikTok USA is broken Everything (Including Netflix) Will Become YouTube This Year It’s finally time to retire the word ‘podcast’ Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The end of the Sony era in TVs
Nilay owns a Sony TV. He loves his Sony TV, and he's a little sad that it appears this era of Sony TVs is ending. He and David talk through the news of a new joint venture between Sony and TCL, before digging into OpenAI's new-fangled plan to make money (spoiler alert: it's ads!), and some new news about an AI gadget Apple may or may not be working on. Then it's time for the lightning round: Brendan Carr, Netflix, the Trump Phone, and much more. Further reading: The TikTok deal could finally close this week. Epic and Google have a secret $800 million Unreal Engine and services deal Sony’s TV business is being taken over by TCL What a Sony and TCL partnership means for the future of TVs OpenAI’s 2026 ‘focus’ is ‘practical adoption’ OpenAI releases a cheaper ChatGPT subscription Ads are coming soon to ChatGPT, starting with shopping links Opinion | A.I. Is Real. But OpenAI Might Still Fail.Apple is reportedly working on an AirTag-sized AI wearable Apple is turning Siri into an AI bot that’s more like ChatGPT FCC Targets Colbert and Kimmel in New Crackdown on Late-Night TV - The New York Times Bureau Provides Guidance on Political Equal Opportunities Requirement | Federal Communications Commission Free TV startup Telly only had 35,000 units in people’s homes last fall Microsoft wants to build 15 data centers in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin OpenAI says its data centers will pay for their own energy and limit water usage Netflix will revamp its mobile UI this year 600,000 Trump Mobile phones sold? There’s no proof. YouTubers will be able to make Shorts with their own AI likenesses Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How BYD beat Tesla
There’s a new biggest name in EVs, and if you live in the US, you pretty much can’t buy one. But before we get to that, we have some stuff to catch up on: The Verge's Hayden Field joins us for a round of “Big Deal Medium Deal Small Deal” with some AI news, from the launch of ChatGPT Health to the recent viral moment for Claude Code. After that, The Verge’s Andy Hawkins joins the show to explain how BYD recently eclipsed Tesla as the world’s largest seller of electric vehicles, what makes its cars so desirable, and when you, too, might be able to buy a Dolphin Surf. Finally, David tackles a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast@theverge.com!) about giving your kids iPads instead of iPhones, and whether all screen time is created equal. Further reading: Car influencers love Chinese EVs — and China loves them back Tesla’s fourth quarter sales fell a lot more than expected From Inside EVs: A Guide To BYD, The Chinese Automaker That Just Surpassed Tesla Anthropic wants you to use Claude to ‘Cowork’ in latest AI agent push Anthropic shakes up C-suite to expand its internal incubator OpenAI launches ChatGPT Health, encouraging users to connect their medical records Google brings buy buttons to Gemini and AI search Grok is undressing children — can the law stop it? Google is taking over your Gmail inbox with AI Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Siri is a Gemini
Nearly two years ago, Apple showed off what an AI-powered Siri might do. That Siri never materialized, but thanks to a deal with Google for its Gemini tech, it might finally have a chance to work. David and Nilay discuss the ins and outs of the deal, and what it might mean for both Apple's and Google's ambitions in AI. (They also talk about the onslaught of new lawsuits from publishers related to Google's adtech antitrust case, including from our parent company Vox Media. Disclosure is our brand.) After that, they talk about Grok's horrific deepfake problem on X, and why everyone involved deserves the blame. Then it's time to pour one out for VR and the metaverse, which is losing steam as Meta loses interest and continues to pivot to AI. RIP Supernatural, a surprise hit of an exercise app! Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a Dummy, the latest Paramount / Warner / Netflix drama, the Trump Phone, and the Digg reboot. Further reading: The Atlantic, Penske, and Vox Media have all sued Google for antitrust violations Apple picks Google’s Gemini AI for its big Siri upgrade What Apple and Google’s Gemini deal means for both companies Google’s Gemini AI will use what it knows about you from Gmail, Search, and YouTube Why Google Gemini looks poised to win the AI race over OpenAI A “conscious decision” from OpenAI. X hasn’t really stopped Grok AI from undressing women in the UK Advocacy groups demand Apple and Google block X from app stores UK pushes up a law criminalizing deepfake nudes in response to Grok X claims it has stopped Grok from undressing people, but of course it hasn’t Meta plans to lay off hundreds of metaverse employees this week Meta confirms Reality Labs layoffs and shifts to invest more in wearables Meta is closing down three VR studios as part of its metaverse cuts Meta’s layoffs hit the studio that made Batman: Arkham Shadow, too. Supernatural Will No Longer Get New Content Or Features FTC won’t appeal court decision permitting Meta to buy Within The best thing to do in VR is work out FCC chair Brendan Carr is pressed on removing ‘independent’ from its website. Verizon gets FCC permission to end 60-day phone unlocking rule Anthropic wants you to use Claude to ‘Cowork’ in latest AI agent push Paramount sues after Warner Bros. Discovery rejects its latest deal Netflix is reportedly considering an all-cash offer for Warner Bros. The new Digg is launching an open beta. Elon Musk Cannot Get Away With This Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
How Lego’s Smart Brick works
January brings two things in Vergecast-land: CES, and New Years' Resolutions. We start this episode with a dive into the story of this year's biggest tech show, the Lego Smart Brick, which is either a clever way of thinking about creativity or the end of creativity as we know it. Sean Hollister explains how the Smart Brick works, and how Lego can make sure it ends the right way. Then, Platformer's Casey Newton discusses his productivity system, his adventures in Claude Code, and how you too can make yourself a little more productive this year — with or without AI. Further reading: Lego announces Smart Brick, the ‘most significant evolution’ in 50 years Lego’s Smart Bricks aren’t just an experiment I played with the Lego Smart Brick From Platformer: The project that turned me into a Claude Code believer From Platformer: What I learned about productivity this year Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Live from CES: What is the point of a robot that falls over?
The theme of CES 2026 is gadgets. It's always gadgets. This year more than most, though, the world's biggest tech show is about how fast the hardware world is moving — and how much work the software, and the AI, have to do to catch up. On stage live at the Brooklyn Bowl in Las Vegas, David and Nilay talk through some of the biggest news of the week, from robots to laptops to AI cuddle buddies, to see what's really going to matter in tech this year. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The robots, phones and Lego of CES 2026
2026 is just beginning, and it's already time for the biggest gadget event of the year. As the Verge team heads to Las Vegas for the Consumer Electronics Show, David and Nilay run through as many of the newly announced products as they can. There are robots, art TVs, phones, more robots, smart Legos, smart home gizmos, and still more robots. Some of this stuff will ship, and might even be a big hit. Some of it, well, won't. But it's all an interesting look into what's happening in tech right now.Also: if you're in Vegas for CES, come see us live! We'll be at the Brooklyn Bowl on Wednesday, January 7th, for live recordings of Decoder and The Vergecast, and we'd love to see you there. Further reading: This robot companion is a cameraman for your pet LG says its CLOiD home robot will be folding laundry and making breakfast at CES SwitchBot brings a humanoid home robot to CES You can’t buy Zeroth’s WALL-E robot in the US, but you can get its cousin This startup brought WALL-E to life and will also sell you WALL-E’s weird cousin Kicking Robots, by James Vincent The Clicks Power Keyboard is also a backup battery for your phone The Clicks Communicator is a BlackBerry for your phone I just want to keep unfolding the Samsung Z TriFold The Aliro smart lock standard for NFC and UWB unlocking will launch this year Lutron adds smart wood blinds to its Caséta line. Bosch’s fancy coffee machine is getting Alexa Plus The new Ultraloq smart lock uses both your face and your palm to let you in Lockin’s new vein-scanning smart lock has a video doorbell and recharges wirelessly Hands-on with the Mui Board: a wooden smart home controller The Mui Board will support mmWave sleep tracking and gesture control You can unlock SwitchBot’s first deadbolt smart lock with your face Lifx launches a smart mirror and a $30 dimmer switch that can control smart bulbs Lockly’s new smart locks will support Matter and NFC GE Lighting’s new Matter-compatible smart shades start at just $300 The LG OLED evo W6 Wallpaper TV makes its return at CES RGB is the next big thing in OLED gaming monitors Belkin’s new HDMI adapter wirelessly connects to screens from 130 feet LG’s new Gallery TV, designed for displaying art, will be at CES 2026 Samsung brings back the Timeless Frame with its biggest Micro RGB TV at CES. TCL debuts a new quantum dot and color filter technology with the X11L Gemini on Google TV is getting Nano Banana and voice-controlled settings Amazon announces a Samsung Frame competitor with the Ember Artline TV Amazon Fire TV OS gets a revamp that’s more modern and pleasing LG’s new karaoke-ready party speaker uses AI to remove song vocals Would you let AI cut your hair? A developer for a ‘major food delivery app’ says the ‘algorithms are rigged against you Lego announces Smart Brick, the ‘most significant evolution’ in 50 years | The Verge Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella is now blogging about AI slop “Feed is dead.” Adam Mosseri on how Instagram exists in the age of AI-generated images The Trump phone just missed another release date Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Version History: iPhone 4
The iPhone 4 was one of the best iPhones ever — and definitely the most dramatic iPhone ever. It was lost in a bar in California, sold to Gizmodo, and published for the world to see months before its launch. The phone itself had a bunch of important new features, and one that spawned Antennagate. In this episode, David Pierce, Nilay Patel, and longtime tech columnist Walt Mossberg tell the whole story of the phone, its legacy, and its place in tech blog history. If you like the show, subscribe to the Version History feed to make sure you get every new episode. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The Vergecast RAM Holiday Spec-Tacular
The world runs on RAM, and RAM is harder than ever to get your hands on. What’s happening here? Every year, the Vergecast team spends the holiday season going deep on a single spec or technology, and this year it’s all about Random Access Memory. (No, that’s not a Daft Punk album.) Nilay, David, and Sean Hollister explain what RAM is, why it matters, how it became a precious commodity, and what it means for the future of chips around the world. We also play some games. We do… okay at the games. Happy Holidays! Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Version History: Google Glass
If you like the show, follow the Version History feed to make sure you get every new episode as soon as it drops. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices