Professional mountain biker Payson McElveen sits down with some of the biggest names in sports and adventure to get an inside look at what sets them apart. With no script, the casual conversations are as diverse as the guests, with topics ranging from harrowing tales of survival, to debates on current events, to everyday tips and tricks and everything in between. As Payson travels the world for his two-wheeled day job, listen in as he rubs shoulders with and learns from some of the most inspiring athletes, entrepreneurs, academics, and others as they chase and inspire greatness.
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Lawson Craddock on 10 years in the pro peloton, the 2018 Tour, and Texas
Lawson Craddock grew up in the flatland of Houston but fought his way onto the WorldTour feeder team Trek-Livestrong when he was still a teenager. After turning pro three years later, he raced for Giant-Shimano, Cannondale, and his current team, Jayco–AlUla. In his 10 years in the WorldTour, he's taken podiums at the Vuelta, won the Time Trial National Championships in back-to-back years, and had a standout performance at the 2018 Tour de France, but not for the usual reasons.Lawson caught up with Payson in Spain last week to reminisce about racing together in Texas as teenagers and his subsequent move to Europe and into the WorldTour. He talks about how getting pulled from the Vuelta in his first year in the pro peloton gave him extra fuel for a triumphant return the next year, and how a relentless training plan mandated by his team nearly derailed his momentum. He also details his viral performance at the 2018 Tour de France. After fracturing his scapula in the first stage, he went on the complete every remaining stage and raise $380k for his hometown velodrome in Houston which was damaged by Hurricane Harvey. Now in his early 30s and raising a young family, Lawson talks about whether he plans to move back home to Texas and whether he finally intends to fulfill his childhood dream of joining the family roofing business.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Heidi Franz on surviving the Zaaf debacle and returning to the pro peloton
In 2022, Heidi Franz was approached with an enticing offer: B&B Hotels-KTM, a revamped team with a sky-high budget and some of the biggest WorldTour riders set to sign on, wanted her on its roster. But after months of unfulfilled promises and extensive press coverage, the team collapsed, leaving Heidi and dozens of other riders without a team right before the 2023 season. When an unknown team called Zaaf approached her and several other would-be B&B team members, there was nowhere else to go. Soon, however, it became clear that Zaaf was neither prepared for the season nor capable of handling the fallout. With unpaid riders, dangerous working conditions, and swirling media speculation, the UCI revoked Zaaf’s license mid-season, leaving its riders floundering.Less than a year later, Heidi is back in the WorldTour with team Lifeplus–Wahoo, and joins Payson just after placing fifth in a stage of the Tour Down Under. She tells him about surviving the dramatic, high-profile collapse of two teams in 2023 and how a traumatic event in her father’s life inspired her to keep going. She talks about racing Gravel Worlds, snagging her first European win in late 2023 after joining DNA Pro Cycling shortly after Zaaf went bust, and how she feels that she's just coming into her own as a professional cyclist.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Jack Thompson on resetting the boundaries of ultra cycling and recovering from addiction
Known to his fans as Jack Ultra Cyclist, Jack Thompson has been smashing world records left and right for close to a decade. Growing up in Perth, Australia, he struggled with depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder as a teenager and eventually entered rehab for a drug addiction. Once he was able to channel his focus into cycling, however, he found his element. Quitting his construction job and moving across the world, he found a niche tackling seemingly impossible ultra challenges and raising money for mental health charities. In 2022, he broke multiple world records by climbing one million meters of elevation, Everesting once a week on a different climb each week, and raising $500k for mental health. Payson sat down with Jack in Girona to discuss growing up in Perth, his struggles with addiction and mental health, and quitting his career in the construction industry to follow his dream of becoming a professional cyclist. Jack recounts his first major challenge in 2018 when he decided to do the Taiwan KOM climb, considered one of the hardest on earth, four times without stopping. He also reveals just how brutal it was to complete a million meters of elevation in a year, how under-eating led to chronic fatigue, and why surfing gives him a respite from the bike.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Sam Gaze on his mountain bike world titles, depression, and joining Alpecin-Deceuninck
In 2014, Sam Gaze was a privateering teenager from a rural farming town in New Zealand when he took the men's title in the opening round of an eliminator World Cup in Cairns, Australia. With this breakout ride, he caught the eye of Specialized Racing and relocated to Europe, where he went on to claim five world titles, including U23 World Champion and Elite Marathon and Short Track World Champion. He now races for UCI team Alpecin–Deceuninck where he competes in the WorldTour as well as the World Cup. Payson sat down with Sam in Girona to talk about breaking Nino Schurter’s record-setting winning streak in the opening round of the 2018 World Cup, being mentored by Christoph Sauser, and how winning the World Championship in 2016 with his dad at the finish was the best day of his life. But they also discuss the low points, such as the infamous moment at the 2018 Commonwealth Games when his spur-of-the-moment reaction toward an opponent sparked a media frenzy. The experience intensified his ongoing struggle with depression and caused him to take a hiatus from cycling for much of 2019. In the end, it took medical advice and some encouragement from friend and former opponent, Mathieu van der Poel, to bring him back. Sam talks about his experience with depression, racing with Alpecin, and setting his sights on the Paris Olympics.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Petr Vakoč, off-road racer and former WorldTour rider
Before migrating to off-road racing last year, Czech cyclist Petr Vakoč spent nearly 10 years racing in the WorldTour, most notably as a member of team Quick-Step. During his road career, he made the start list of multiple Grand Tours, including the Tour de France and the Giro d’Italia, and won the Brabantse Pijl in Belgium in 2016 after years of focused preparation.Payson sat down with Petr in Girona this week to talk about growing up in Prague and starting out mountain biking with his brother. They discuss Petr’s early dedication to turning pro, which included learning to speak French, and a two-month winning spree that finally caught the attention of Quick-Step team manager Patrick Lefevere and earned him a place within the legendary Wolf Pack. Petr also talks about his breakaway win at Brabantse and why he decided to retire from the road at 30 to focus on off-road racing. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Dennis van Winden, cycling coach and former WorldTour rider
Even by the standards of WorldTour racing, Dennis van Winden’s career has seen a lot of highs and lows. Starting out on the legendary Rabobank development team as a teenager, he landed a spot on the WorldTour team and was starting to distinguish himself as a promising new talent when a catastrophic health incident changed his trajectory. He returned to Rabobank (then LottoNL–Jumbo) through 2016, but eventually stepped away from road racing and began focusing on the U.S. gravel scene. Now, he coaches a long roster of American talents through Orange Seal Academy, including Cole Paton and World Cup rider Savilia Blunk. Payson sat down with Dennis in Girona this week to talk about his 13 years in the pro peloton and his transition into coaching. Dennis discusses the mistakes he made as an overly-disciplined young racer, the surgery he had in his early 20s that was meant to improve his cycling career but nearly ended it, and how his “Dutch directness” ultimately led to his current role at Orange Seal Academy. He also reflects candidly on what it was like to enter road racing on the tail-end of the doping era, and how he’s coaching young cyclists to approach their training in exactly the opposite way that he did.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
End of year Q&A
In this final episode of the year, Payson answers your questions about training, the 2023 season, UCI points, mustaches, and much more. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Derek Teel on activation and double Everesting
This week, cycling trainer Derek Teel returns to answer more questions about strength training for endurance cyclists. He goes over the importance of mobility, how to do a proper push-up, and the equipment-free exercises everyone should be incorporating into their pre-ride routine. He also talks about some of his own endurance efforts, including double Everesting, in which he climbed over 58,000 feet in 27 hours, Everesting Roam, in which he climbed over 29,000 feet over 326 miles. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Derek Teel on strength training for cyclists
Derek Teel began his career as a downhill mountain biker, only to pivot toward personal training when he became fascinated with his team’s trainers and nutritionists. Over time, he found a way to combine his two passions, and his company, Dialed Health, was born, a strength training program geared specifically toward cyclists. In this episode, Derek joins Payson to talk about why cyclists require a different kind of strength training than other athletes, and how conversations with his fellow gravity racers inspired him to start his business. He dispels some long-held beliefs about cyclists and strength training, offers advice for those who are short on time, and discusses where cyclists should fit strength training into their schedules based on their racing goals. He also delves into his personal journey and how the difficult decision to go all-in on Dialed Health at a pivotal point in his life paid off. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Katie Burrell on ‘Weak Layers’ and finding comedy in the outdoor industry
Katie Burrell has been called the “action sports cult antihero” for her wildly popular videos satirizing the outdoor industry. Through YouTube videos and Instagram reels, the comedian has poked fun at everything from know-it-all mountain bikers to couples having relationship meltdowns in the middle of hiking expeditions. Now, she’s written, directed, and starred in her first feature-length film, ‘Weak Layers,’ which follows a woman in a ski town who tries to win a world-famous ski film competition. The movie was selected for the Whistler, Banff, and Kendal Mountain film festivals, and has been picked up for distribution by the same distributors that launched 'Free Solo' into theaters. Katie sat down with Payson to talk about her roots in stand-up comedy in Canada, finding a comedy goldmine when she moved to Revelstoke to pursue skiing, and how the character she plays on social media accidentally became a real-life influencer. She also talks about leaving her 9 to 5 to pursue filmmaking just months before the pandemic hit, the steep learning curve of directing 'Weak Layers,' and the joke that inspired a proposal between two of her fans. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Angus Neaves on bikepacking 9,000 miles from Mongolia to Scotland
After finishing high school in his native Australia, Angus Neaves devised the ultimate gap year plan: a 9,000-mile solo bikepacking trip from Mongolia to Scotland. After seven months and 16 countries, he finally completed the journey this week and joined Payson to talk about it. From the hospitality he found in Kazakstan to an impromptu trip to Gravel Worlds in Italy and a detour to Berlin for the museums, Angus found unexpected highlights along the way, in addition to some low points. He was held up at the border to Azerbaijan, had some run-ins with dogs in rural Turkey, and broke two phones, but throughout the ups and downs, he had plenty of time to reflect on friendship, connection, and his future. He tells Payson about why he decided to travel across the world for such an epic journey, what he’s learned from the experience, and why Albania was his favorite country to visit. Tap here to donate to Angus's climate action fundraiser.Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Starla Teddergreen on racing with Multiple Sclerosis
Starla Teddergreen had an extensive professional cycling career behind her and a spot in the Life Time Grand Prix when she was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 2022. Despite dropping out of the series due to the diagnosis, she reapplied in 2023 and completed the series. Starla sat down with Payson this week to discuss the confusing mix of symptoms she began feeling during the pandemic and the skepticism and dismissal she received from doctors before finally receiving an MS diagnosis. Despite the relief of having an answer, however, she had to come to terms with the reality that she might not be able to ride her bike again. She talks about her emotional first race back after her diagnosis when the support of an old friend changed her career trajectory even more than her win, and her plan to race one of the biggest off-road stage races in the world next year. She also talks about how her early years as a bike messenger led her to becoming the 2019 USA Crits winner. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Chris Burkard on the Tour Divide and moving to Iceland
This week, photographer and adventurer Chris Burkard returns to the show to talk about moving to Iceland and his experience racing the Tour Divide this summer. Having spent the last decade exploring and documenting Iceland, Chris finally made the big move with his family. He tells Payson about why he decided the time was right, what it’s been like as a parent to watch his sons assimilate so quickly into the community, and how the current seismic activity has made him ponder the morality of documenting natural disasters. He also talks about his grueling journey on the Tour Divide, complete with persistent mechanicals, an emotional voicemail, and an incident with a canister of bear spray that definitely isn’t what you’d think. He might've wanted to burn all his bikes by the end of it, but he's already thinking about going back. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Thrainn Kolbeinsson, photographer, on the impending volcanic threat in Iceland
For the past couple of weeks, Iceland has been shaking with earthquakes as an underground river of magma moves toward the surface. Over the weekend, more than 800 earthquakes were detected in 14 hours in the Reykjanes Peninsula in the southwest of the country, and nearly 4,000 people were evacuated from the small town of Grindavík. One of the people who has had a front-row seat to these events is Thrainn Kolbeinsson, a photographer who Payson worked with on both of his island crossing films. Thrainn got his start in photography by documenting the Reykjanes Peninsula and has even lived in Grindavík alongside many of his family members. When the Fagradalsfjall volcano began erupting in the spring of 2021, he immediately went to the site with his camera and returned nearly every day for months. But this time, it’s different. With a national emergency declared and earthquakes carving canyons through roads and houses, the possibility of a disastrous eruption is more present than it’s been in decades.Thrainn joins Payson from Reykjavik to talk about the events of the past few days, how the people of Iceland have been defined by the volcanic activity of their island for thousands of years, and ways that the community is dealing with an impending eruption. He also talks about his past as a multi-time Jiu-Jitsu national champion and child psychologist before he found his passion for photographing the outdoors. Since then, he’s worked with endurance athletes, outdoor gear companies, and tourism boards in Iceland and abroad to produce images that capture the wildness of the natural environment. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc
Asa Vermette, the 16-year-old shaking up the downhill scene (with Neko Mulally)
If you haven’t already heard of Asa Vermette, chances are, that’s about to change in a big way this coming year. The 16-year-old Durango native has been making waves in the downhill scene since he was 14, showing up at pro races and beating some of the sport’s top riders for the podium. He won most of his races this year, including the Enduro National Championship where he beat 3x world champ Richie Rude. 2024 will be the first year that he can compete in World Cups, where he’ll be racing as a junior despite proving his ability to race at the top of the pro field. Earlier this year, he signed a multi-year deal with Frameworks, the team led by fellow downhill racer Neko Mulally. Asa joins Payson this week to talk about being one of the most hyped young riders the sport has seen in years. He talks about rubbing shoulders with his heroes…while standing next to them on the podium, and throwing backflips at Red Bull Rampage. He explains how Neko Mulally and the Frameworks team immediately felt like family, and how he plans to spend the $7,500 he won when he placed second at the U.S. Open this year ahead of the likes of Greg Minnaar and Jackson Goldstone. Payson also chats with Neko Mulally about when Asa first appeared on his radar, how his role as a mentor has been surprisingly emotional, and the moment when Asa’s course record sweep at Snowshoe sent shockwaves through the pro field. Instagram: @withpacepodcastYouTube: Payson McElveenEmail: howdy@withpace.cc