Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Hosts Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source, and leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms, and communities are welcome. Open source moves fast. Keep up.
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Just on the rocks (Friends)
Jerod tells Adam about how bad he hates the taste of Gin, sips on some Generative A Rye (on the rocks), they open the comments section for a bit, and then land the plane talking about being alone, naked, and afraid.
The CEO of htmx likes codin' dirty (Interview)
Jerod is joined by Carson Gross, the creator of htmx –a small, zero-dependency JavaScript library that he says, "completes HTML as a hypertext". Carson built it because he's big on hypermedia, he even wrote a book called Hypermedia Systems. Carson has a lot of strong opinions weakly held that we dive into in this conversation.
Stop uploading your data to Google (News)
Lukas Mathis tells us to stop uploading our data to Google, Robert Vitonsky wants web devs to not guess his language using his IP, Tom from GameTorch reminds us that software talent is gold right now, Austin Parker from Honeycomb describes how LLMs are upending the observability industry, and Vitess co-creator, Sugu Sougoumarane, joins Supabase to lead their Multigres effort to bring Vitess to Postgres.
Saltiness about frostiness (Friends)
Justin Searls joins Jerod in Apple's WWDC wake for hot takes about frosty UIs. We go (almost) point-by-point through the keynote, dissecting and reacting along the way. Concentricity!
The Roc programming language (Interview)
Jerod chats with Richard Feldman about Roc – his fast, friendly, functional language inspired by Richard's love of Elm. Roc takes many of Elm's ideas beyond the frontend and introduces some great ideas of its own. Get ready to learn about static dispatch, platforms vs applications, opportunistic mutation, purity inference, and a whole lot more.
Never. Let. AI. Write. Your. Tests. (News)
Diwank explains why you should never let AI writes your tests, Apple redesigns all of their software platforms, AI has brought about the rise of judgement over technical skills, Peter Steinberger says Claude Code is now his computer, and the curious case of Memvid.
Adventures in babysitting coding agents (Friends)
The ever-provocative Steve Yegge joins us fresh off a vibe coding bender so productive, he wrote a book on the topic alongside award-winning author Gene Kim. Steve tells us why he believes the IDE is dead, why babysitting AI agents is more fun than coding, when vibe coding might take over the enterprise, how software devs should approach coding agents, and what it all means for society.
We're all Builders now (Interview)
We're on location at Microsoft Build 2025 with Amanda Silver, Corporate Vice President of Microsoft's Developer Division. Amanda leads product, design, user research, and engineering systems for some of the tools you use every day. We discuss the latest AI announcements from Microsoft at Build 2025, how AI is reshaping development tools, what's next for VS Code, TypeScript, GitHub's evolution, and even emerging editors like Windsurf that are forking the VS Code ecosystem.
The 'developer replacement' hype cycle (News)
We're doing a live show in Denver this July, Danilo Alonso has seen the 'developer replacement' hype cycle many times, Dan Sinker says we're in the Who Cares Era, Cap looks like a solid alternative to typical CAPTCHA solutions, Michael Flarup on the return of texture, depth, and expressiveness in UI & Kan is an open source alternative to Trello.
wsl.exe -- cat hello.cs (Friends)
We bring you back to Microsoft Build 2025 to nerd out with Craig Loewen on Windows Subsystem for Linux and Mads Torgersen on leading the design of C#.
The Web Development Engine (Interview)
We're joined by Andreas Møller, Co-founder of Nordcraft — the team behind Nordcraft Engine, a powerful new platform designed to give web developers what gaming developers have had for years. Andreas shares what inspired them to build Nordcraft Engine, why they believe the web is overdue for a shift in how we approach designing and building for the web, ee explore how the platform works, how you can get started, and what's next for Nordcraft.
Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out (News)
The San Fransisco Standard published some sobering news for new graduates, the Forge team decided to put an AI agent in your shell, Fernando Borretti says you can choose tools that make you happy, Jujutsu's flexibility and safety changed Nathan Witmer's approach to version control, Anil Dash is as excited about MCP as almost everyone else is & Alex Kladov shares two rules of thumb around pushing "ifs" up and "fors" down.
Dull, dirty or dangerous (Friends)
We sit down with Scott Hanselman at Microsoft Build 2025 to discuss open sourcing all the things, cool stuff Windows can do, where we want (and don't want) AI to fit into our lives, building arcade cabinets, and so much more.
Refactored in prison (Interview)
Preston Thorpe joins us from inside prison, where he awaits a hopeful release within the next 12 months. His journey has been anything but easy—marked by hardship and uncertainty. But over the past few years, Preston has undergone a profound transformation. He’s refactored not just his skills, but his identity. Today, he proudly calls himself a software engineer and an open source contributor. In this episode, Preston shares his story of redemption, resilience, and what comes next.
Windows Subsystem for Linux is open source (News)
Microsoft finally opens the source of WSL, Paolo Scanferla describes an inherent trade-off in TypeScript's type system, Alberto Fortin is taking a step back from heavy LLM use while coding, a pseudonymous hacker spent two weeks coding from their Android phone, and NLWeb might become the HTML of the open agentic web.